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Förspel for brass ensemble JS 83

 
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nadorn
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 1:10 pm    Post subject: Förspel for brass ensemble JS 83 Reply with quote

Yesterday I've heard the piece for brass ensemble (JS 83) on BIS records and I've wondered that in the liner notes there is the addition of a triangle but I've heard none on the record. Is that right or am I going deaf?
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David Revilla
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got the original CD (BIS-CD-1054) and, it's true, there isn't any indications in the details of the recording with a triangle. There are "gran cassa", "tam-tam", and two percusionists more in "Tiera", but any of them in the track 10, the Forspel.

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nadorn
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you. I own the box set of the chamber works II from BIS records. There is mentioned a triangle in the liner notes, but this could be an error. In Fabian Dahlström's Werkverzeichnis there is also mentioned a triangle. On record that instrument can't be heard. I would like to look at the printed work but I couldn't find it in the internet.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably the performers don't play that part.

There is another recording of these pieces for brass:
Finnish Brass Ensemble, Jukka-Pekka Saraste, Alba label (1994), but I haven't this CD.

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nadorn
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think, there is no triangle part in Js 83, or that part is not playable. On the same CD (BIS-CD-1054) the piece Tiera JS 200 is played with full percussion, so why should the triangle part on JS 83 be left off, when there are percussion players on the recording session. As you've written on the original CD there is no triangle player mentioned for JS 83 but on the CD Boxset "Chamber Music II" one of the players playing on Tiera is also mentioned to have played on Förspel JS 83. It's just a mystery or just a mistake in the liner notes.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps the problem is that the recording isn't based in the original score. I have been looking for the published original in Fennica Gehrman, but only I can found this item to be sold: the "Petite suite for brass ensemble" (that is, the Praeludium JS.83 plus Andantino and Minuet, JS.45), arranged by Holger Fransman.

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This score is easy to found in libraries around the world:

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Did Brass Partout record this "Petite suite", or the Sibelius original score? I can see in this sample of the Fransman score that he doesn't include indeed the triangle:

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Also, I found another new recording of these pieces:

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The two/three pieces are also on an old Hyperion disc called 'Original 19th Century Music for Brass'. Doesn't appear to be a triangle there either (from a quick spotcheck anyway)
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also have that Hyperion disc with the London Gabrieli Brass Ensemble cond. Christopher Larkin. Includes four Sibelius pieces for Brass including the Praeludium [1891] The JS numbers are not given. I could not hear the triangle in any of the Sibelius pieces. Although a triangle player is listed in the Brass Ensemble. The Cd features a great picture of the Loviisa Fire Brigade Band in 1908.-kp

Hyperion CDA66470

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After my research the förspel JS 83 was recorded five times:
As part of the Petit Suite arranged by Holger Fransman three times from Salonen, Björklund and The Wallace Collection,
as a single piece by Bäumer (brass partout) and one version I can't decide by Christopher Larkin.

After a look in "Dahlström's Sibelius Werkverzeichnis" the original version wasn't published until 2003 and will first be published (maybe ?) in the future by Breitkopf and Härtel. In my opinion the version recorded by BIS records is probably the original manuscript and not the Fransman version because - in BIS own words - they didn't record arrangements of Sibelius' works for the Jean Sibelius Edition Box Set. The book of Kilpeläinen lists a manuscript of JS 83 but without mentioning a triangle. So I think that the triangle in JS 83 is a mistake in the liner notes of the BIS box set and in Dahlström's Werkverzeichnis.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry it's not Salonen but Saraste and another alone standing version of JS 83 (I think it's not the arrangement of the petit suite from Fransman) is played by the Brass Septet Imperial.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting research!

Sometimes, old recordings of the Bis catalogue are used in the Sibelius Edition, and I think that there were some items that don't fit quite right in the main philosophy of the Edition. So, maybe that recordings really don't use the ms. So, in the original booklet:


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we can read that the ensemble plays acording the "Fazer" edition, not the manuscript. I think that Fazer is the same publisher that Fennica, isn't it?

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Anyway, all the recordings except the one by Solistiseitsikko Imperial are recorded before 2003, and if the arrangement was the only published score of this music... Such a mistery! But I supose that is right information is Dahlström's.

In the booklet of the London Gabrieli Brass Ensemble Christopher Larkin says that the original score by Sibelius were used for the recording, and there isn't any triangle indeed.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2016 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes you're right. Larkin, Bäumer and Brass Septet Imperial could have recorded the original versions of the pieces because the pieces JS 45 und JS 83 aren't in the right running order of the Petit Suite arranged by Fransman. Saraste, Björklund and The Wallace Collection recorded the pieces of the Petit Suite in the right order.

Bäumer and brass partout recorded all 6 pieces in 1999 in chronological order as separate items. So I think these could be the manuscript versions? In my opinion the main philosophy of BIS records to record only originals for the Jean Sibelius edition stood with the recording of the first version of the violin concerto. For the Jean Sibelius edition Box Set BIS re-recorded some works with which they were not satisfied in the past. So if the pieces for brass septet were not she original versions I think they had recorded them once more for the Box set in 2009.

While studying Dahlström's book I found another strange thing: Only Förspel JS 83, Andantino und Menuett JS 45 and the Overture JS 146 were arranged by Fransman for Fazer but not the Allegro JS 25 which was only available as a manuscript. Very strange isn't it? Because everyone except The Wallace Collection recorded the unpublished Allegro JS 25 in the eighties and nineties. I also wonder what Fransman has arranged and changed in the Petit Suite comparing to the original versions? Anyone knows more about this?
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