Of course, Sibelius's seven symphonies are perfect examples of abstract, absolute music. However, I tend to have an over-active imagination and I can't help but visualise my own "programs" for at least two of the symphonies...namely the 3rd and 7th.

For me, the 3rd is Sibelius's "Pastorale." In my head, the first movement is completely evocative of a brilliant Nordic summer's day. I envision an open field with tall grass underneath golden sunlight. There is a constant rush of wind which makes the grass undulate like a green ocean and bird song can be heard to penetrate through the light roar of the wind. It is a warm wind but with the occasional wisp of coolness.

The second movement is less "programatic" for me, but perhaps suggests the day becoming evening as the winds calm and the air cools. There is almost a sense of complaint that the day is ending.

The thrid movement begins with a light summer storm. After about four and a half minutes (that depands on which recording you're listening too!), the sun begins to break through as the dark clouds reluctantly dissipate. All the while, winds - both warm and cool -continue to blow. As the symphony comes to a close, only a small amount of the charcoal clouds remain and the sun's radiant rays reign supreme in the deep blue sky.

I told you I have an over-active imagination!

And now for the 7th.

To me, the 7th ironically embraces the entire universe more than any Mahler symphony. So much so that what I envision is...the universe!

I can see galaxies slowly but gracefully spinning, planets turning, comets silently zipping about in the distance. Of course, there is no sound in space, but THIS is what space sounds like to me. It is purely cosmic, spiritual music.

Does anyone else have a personal program for a symphony?

not i...just the sounds and a feeling of movement.

dj

Tapkaara wrote:

Of course, Sibelius's seven symphonies are perfect examples of abstract, absolute music. However, I tend to have an over-active imagination and I can't help but visualise my own "programs"...

Another aspect of Sibelius' genius. In the writing of this very absolute music he manages to conjur images, very personal ones, in his listeners.

Tapkaara wrote:

For me, the 3rd is Sibelius's "Pastorale."

Certainly the radiant C major gives a "bucolic" feeling throughout. "Bucolic" is not my word, I read that in a program note to this symphony somewhere and I can't help associating this piece with that word every time I hear it or think about it. Personally, I don't "see" the things Tapkaara "sees", I feel it more as a state of mind associated with nature. The "spirit" of nature expressed in sound, perhaps, without direct reference to anything in particular.

Tapkaara wrote:

To me, the 7th ironically embraces the entire universe more than any Mahler symphony.

Not at all ironically, Tapkaara, you have hit the nail right on the head here. In my opinion, Mahler chose the incorrect metaphor or object of comparison to illustrate what his works are about. To me, Mahler's symphonies are not "Universes" or "Worlds" in the cosmic sense. Mahler's symphonies are Pictures of Humanity, with all its filth and decadence and striving for something greater, sometimes attaining the sought after paradise and other times falling way short. This is not a criticism of Mahler's music, I am simply trying to characterize what I feel his symphonies are about.

And as Tapkaara alludes, it is precisely the famous inner logic that makes Sibelius' symphonies more akin to a Universe.

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Tapkaara, I changes the subject of your post a little so that it would appear fully. The original "Symphonies" was cut-off after "sy" -- apparently the subject headings have a maximum length. I checked the admin panel to see if the max length could be changed, and unfortunately it is hardcoded. Hope you don't mind.

Of course, I don't expect anyone else to "see" what I "see"...or indeed "see" anything at all. Interestingly, I do not have visions for any of the other symphonies. I appreciate them as pure, abstract music.

Why do the 3rd and the 7th give me such vivid pictures? I really don't know. They simply must strike something deep inside of me and, without my being to help it, images are conjured up. Seems like I am unique in this regard so far. Most interesting.

i suppose there is both 'intentional' and 'unintentional' programmatic content in any music. i can perhaps influence, but i can not control your perception of any selection i perform or compose.

dj

Tapkaara wrote:

Why do the 3rd and the 7th give me such vivid pictures? I really don't know.

Maybe you're a C major kind of guy.

Kurkikohtaus wrote:

Tapkaara wrote: Why do the 3rd and the 7th give me such vivid pictures? I really don't know. Maybe you're a C major kind of guy.

Hey, C Major is sort of a "universal happy key," right? I'm "universally happy"...! Hahahaha.

I think that's an excellent point, Kurkikohtaus.

I was thinking further about the absolute/program music issue with Sibelius and I came to this conclusion:

Whether Sibelius intended programs for his music or did not, a theme that runs through all of his oeuvre is an appreciation for nature. It was his constant source of inspiration and it certainly affected the way he wrote music.

So, within the 3rd and the 7th, I hear his sounds and I see natural scenes. (Open fields and storms in the 3rd, space and planets in the 7th.) There is something archetypal in Sibelius; his music is so evocative of nature that it makes me conjure images of nature when I hear his music.

Sorry if this discussion is becoming to philosophical, but I think it's intersting!

Tapkaara wrote:

Whether Sibelius intended programs for his music or did not, a theme that runs through all of his oeuvre is an appreciation for nature.

Good point, and I'd just like to add a little personal point of comparison that I've made to my orchestra when we played the 3rd last year.

I think Sibelius depicts nature as it is, from within, if you will. Wheras Brahms, equally inspired by nature, depicts it from the vantage point of human observation.

For some reason I see cinematic images in the 6th symphony. Perhaps the musical cross-fade that happens between the strings of the introduction and the brass chord which opens the allegro, with the strings' C# clashing with the brass' C major, makes me think of cinematic techniques.

All of the 6th symphony, in my mental movie, takes place at the seashore (with the everpresent pure cold water of the North Atlantic as a backdrop). In the introduction there is one lone man walking on the beach. It is grey and and a bit foggy. At the cross-fade, the brass C major chord corresponds to bright sunlight. The camera is pointed directly at the sun, and when it moves away, it reveals a sunny day at the same seashore, with gulls and other birds chasing after crabs alng the beach. Towards the end of the movement the day is drawing to a close, and you can hear the foghorn of a passing ship in the distance (horns) as a heavy fog rolls in (tremolo ponticello strings).

The other movements show nature scenes along the beach. The lone man doesn't return until the coda. Somehow it is conveyed that the man is sick and dying. One can't quite fathom his intentions, but perhaps he wishes to spend his last moments by the sea. He is seen walking slowly away into the distance as the final chords play.

None of this has anything to do with what Sibelius intended. It is a figment of my own imagination concocted while listening to the symphony. I should probably be embarrassed even to share this with you, but here it is.

You're not the only person to associate the 6th with a cinematic, nature experience. Look at the clip below. There is another, summer one like this on YouTube but I couldn't find it, perhaps it has been removed.

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Oh, and Mark G. Simon, no-one needs to feel embarrassed about sharing their thoughts and feelings about Sibelius at this forum.

Thanks Simon for revealing your own personal response to Sibs Sixth Symphony. The Sixth for me is certainly the happiest and the serenest of the seven. But under the radiant surface, darker tensions can be felt. As Sibelius remarked, 'The shadows lengthen'.
The primeval theme of the Symphony opens on a cosmic scale, Sibelius suggesting something vast and timeless, almost beyond reach. Yet miraculously Sibelius draws a curtain back,almost by slight of hand to reveal a much more active human action.
You know, their is almost always a feeling of loneliness and isolation in Sibs music. If we ask ourselves what it is in his music that communicates to us, I think its like all great art, that every human being is locked up in the isolation of his own mind, and when we hear Sibs music, we feel that he has been through this and is saying to us that we are not alone, I am with you.
The second movement [Allegretto Moderato] has a wonderful pensive atmosphere, with a far away sadness, but suddenly we are transported into the forest with chattering birdsong on the woodwind.
The third movement is a Tour de force, we are light years away from the Largo of the Fourth Symphony. A rather individual kind of march, propelled with irresistible forward momentum. Twice the heavy brass assisted by harp and timpani divert the harmonic flow and the music roars to its emphatic close.
The Finale is for me one of Sibs very greatest. A joyous melody on the strings is answered by its mirror image, the music moves forward with Mozartian grace. But in this peaceful scene we hear a distant rumble of thunder. A dance like theme appears and gradually gains in intensity. Here is Sibelius at the height of his powers. The storm is suddenly upon us and threatening the very fabric of the Symphony. The onslaught is every bit as tumultuous as the passages in Nielsens Fifth Symphony were the drummer is instructed to try and halt the flow of the music. But in Sibs Sixth as the brass bring everything crashing down, the music miraculously regains its poise and stability, in a way that Sibelius was unable to bring about during the final pages of No. Four.
The music is driven on to something we cannot yet see, anf finally winds down to a single oscillating note. Now in austere splendour we hear the return of the Symphonies very opening primeval theme as a majestic Chorale.
I feel closer to my creater at this moment than in many other more overtly religious works. It gains in intensity and light as if the very notes are searching for some kind of resolution, it cannot be sustained and the music fades away on a softly held D, like the scent of the first flowers of spring, gently fading away.--kullervopete.