At Stockmanns in Helsinki, I picked up a new EMI reissue: Symphonies 1, 2, 3 and 5 with Jansons/Oslo.

Anyone else heard these?

The performances seem to be very nuanced to me; Jansons has some unusual ideas in these familiar works, certainly. But there is a lot of energy in these recodings, and the sound is very good to boot. Great brass, though the timpani could be more present. Strings sound opulent and detailed.

Anyone else?

I haven't played them for years but I remember them as quite energetic, indeed. I also remember some retouching of orchestration in No. 1, which is one of the main reasons why I haven't returned to them.

Andrew B wrote:

I haven't played them for years but I remember them as quite energetic, indeed. I also remember some retouching of orchestration in No. 1, which is one of the main reasons why I haven't returned to them.

See, I'm not aware of any retouching of the orchestration...do you remember what and where?

I've actually just picked up this 2 Cd set myself. I got it on the strength of Jansons superb performance of the first Symphony at the London Proms recently. I've still not played Symphonies 2 and 5 plus Valse triste, so when I've digested those I will post a review.--kp

From memory (I don't have the CD close by) - doesn't he put the 1st violins up an octave between R and S in the finale (for example)?
I think that is somehow a tradition for Russian-trained conductors, but it's hateful and unnecessary.

Andrew B wrote:

From memory (I don't have the CD close by) - doesn't he put the 1st violins up an octave between R and S in the finale (for example)? I think that is somehow a tradition for Russian-trained conductors, but it's hateful and unnecessary.

You know, I was talking with Kurki about this...I do not own any printed Sibelius scores. (I feel so ashamed now. I really need to crawl under my bed and say some hail marys.)

So, I'm not sure where R and S are but I will listen to see if I can hear some monkied-with octaves in the general area of the finale.

A tradition for Russian-trained conductors? Really? Why would anyone be trained to do that?

I agree this is a bad practice, but a surprising number of conductors [including some none Russian trained] are guilty. I seem to recall Ormandy having the violins play an octave higher than Sibelius's notation in his 1941 recording of the first symphony, both in parts of the opening movement and in the finale. Neeme Jarvi I think is also guilty.--kp

kullervopete wrote:

I agree this is a bad practice, but a surprising number of conductors [including some none Russian trained] are guilty. I seem to recall Ormandy having the violins play an octave higher than Sibelius's notation in his 1941 recording of the first symphony, both in parts of the opening movement and in the finale. Neeme Jarvi I think is also guilty.--kp

Ormandy... oh gosh... he fiddled around with the score of Finlandia in exactly the same way. The second time the first violins play the last bit of the hymn, he has them leap up an octave. I'm not aware of his recording of the first symphony, though.

With regards to the "Russian-trained" issue, unecessary performance traditions develop in strange ways. Some genius conductor has an idea which slowly spreads through orchestras in a region, and it suddenly becomes an unassailable "tradition" in the minds of orchestral musicians.

Woe to the young conductor who comes into such an environment and wants to stick to the score...

Letters R and S in the finale are in the fast section between the two appearances of the 'big tune' - if that helps at all.

Oh yes, Ormandy, you're right ---- and in Finlandia I've never seen why people such as Ormandy - or Bernstein for that matter - changed tempo radically almost every bar in the transition before the main Allegro. It must have seemed like a good idea at the time, but to me it's always sounded plain daft, as well as being totally at odds with what the score says. (Scratches head in bewilderment.)

Yes (to Pete's First Symphony point), Järvi is guilty, but then he trained in Russia too - Leningrad Conservatory. Can't these conductors hear that this wholly wilful intervention merely makes the strings sound thin? (Scratches head in bewilderment again.)

Even in a work such as the first Symphony, the sun struggles to shine fully above the dark Northern forrests. This is one of the characteristics of Sibelius's music that I love so much. Perhaps some of these misguided maestro's raise the strings an octave in the great tune of the finale because they crave a brighter sunlight than Sibelius is prepared to offer.--kp

It would be interesting to find out how far a 'misguided maestro' would have to go - in terms of adjustments to scoring etc. etc. etc. - before he risked legal complications. I'm not sure if it would quite be an infringement of copyright, but there must come a point at which it would be some sort of trades descriptions offence to perform a piece in a way that is demonstrably not what the composer wrote. Otherwise where would it all end? Would we go to the theatre and witness Lady Macbeth intone 'To be or not to be'? Or go to the Louvre and find that the curator had painted a clown's hat on the Mona Lisa?

Andrew B wrote:

I'm not sure if it would quite be an infringement of copyright, but there must come a point at which it would be some sort of trades descriptions offence to perform a piece in a way that is demonstrably not what the composer wrote.

At this point I would like to remind everyone of the lunatic Maximiano Cobra, we had a short discussion about him and his approach to Beethoven in

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several years ago. I wonder if any Beethoven societies took action against his performances?

Maximiano Cobra? Any relation to Monty Python?

Tapkaara wrote:

Maximiano Cobra? Any relation to Monty Python?

One might have thought so...

I've digested the Jansons Oslo Sibelius set from EMI. I suppose the first thing to say is that anyone coming fairly new to Sibelius would probably be happy with these recordings. However as a Sibelian with some track record I will be more critical.

Janson's account of Finlandia opens CD one. This is an honest if not a particulary outstanding performance.

The first symphony is for me quite outstanding, despite elements of score tinkering discusssed earlier. Tempo's seem well judged and the Oslo P.O. play with fire and conviction. Its unusual to see the clarinet soloist named on the sleeve note, nice touch. This recording goes back to 1991 and is eminently recommended.

The opening movement of No.3 is convincing, the pace hardly slackens until the wonderful hymn in the Coda. I know that we can take the 'fog banks drifing along the English coast' quote with a pinch of salt, but I must just mention another reference to this that I saw recently. Music writer Robert Dearling say's that 'Sibelius confided to his friend Granville Bantock, an enthusiastic supporter of Sibelius and his music 'that the semiquavers that are an important feature of the third symphony had been suggested by English coastal mists'. Jansons adopts a tempo in the exquisite middle movement midway between Kajanus and Collins, but there is no lack of atmosphere and Jansons invokes a feeling of inner tranqillity. The Finale is not entirely convincing to my ears, but the final pages are pretty thrilling.
Andante festivo closes disc 1. a performance of conviction with the Oslo strings sounding rich and vibrant.

Disc 2 opens with the second Symphony, initially suggesting a leisurely if not ponderous approach. But from the pizzicato, Jansons puts his foot down. We have some exiting brass playing and the movement thrills in an episodic way. The dramatic second movement, somehow did not feel spontanious enough for me. Turning afterwards to Barbirolli only amplyfied my doubts. Jansons somehow just fails to characterize its contrasting moods. Things improve in the vivacissimo and the trio is nicely played and answered by haunting cellos. I think its virtually impossible to ruin the finale [unless you are Maximiano Cobra] Jansons handles the climaxes well and I love the way that the horns stretch out their last note following the trumpet fanfare. My verdict. A competent performance, but not a front-runner. Valse triste is suitably alluring and Janson proves just what a little masterpiece this is. In the opening of No.5 there is a distinct lack of tension right up to the lugubrious bassoon solo, the transition to the 'Scherzo' second part is ok but the overall vision is no match for Karajan or Vanska. The second movement hardly rises above the routine and I don't care for several rushed passages which rob this music of much magic. The opening of the finale raised my expectations, but these were dashed with the arrival of the swan hymn on the horns. [I must tell you that I had earlier listened to a new revelatory performance of this symphony which was still fresh in my mind] Jansons account of this symphony would probably bring the house down in concert, but for me it was something of an anti-climax.

To sum up, Jansons performance of the first Symphony is competitive and reveals the maestro's Sibelian credentials at their best. The second Symphony is a 'middle of the road' account but anyone wanting a decent digital version of this popular symphony should look elsewhere. Jansons performance of the third can hold its head up with many rival versions, but I would go for Kamu, Vanska or Davies. To my mind the fifth Symphony lacks direction and more seriously inner conviction. The Oslo Philharmonic play well enough and the whole set is excellently recorded. In No.5 I would go for Karajan, Vanska, Celibidache or the new issue I got hold of recently which I will reveal later.--kp