I have come across another interesting J.S.--R. Strauss exchange.
When Sibelius and Strauss met for the first time, the Finnish composer remarked how in his early years he had been much influenced by Strauss's five Symphonic poems, and how incredibly simple and straight forward they had been compared with the masters later works, 'Ja Ja' Strauss smiled, 'those were the times when I hadn't yet divided the violins'.--kp

An interesting point. Sibelius also makes frequent use of violins divisi in his tone poems, and this is what unfortunately puts those works out of reach for my medium-sized orchestra.

What would those 5 early Strauss works have been, btw?

Don Juan
Tod und Verklarung
Till Eulenspiegel
Also Sprach Zarathustra
Ein Heldenleben

... am I missing something? Is there something earlier than these?

Aren't Macbeth and Aus Italien very early?

Certainly 'Aus Italien' opus 16 is the earliest example. Strauss described it as a Symphonic fantasy. Its doubtful if J.S. was familier with it. Certainly Sibelius heard 'Don Juan' opus 20 in his student days in Berlin. 'Macbeth' opus 23 is a possible contender, but Kurki's list is probably spot on, Sibelius would certainly have studied those scores. Here is Strauss being ultra-modest again in a quote from 1947. 'I may not be a first-rate composer, but I am a first-class second-rate composer'. I can't agree with that, save perhaps for his 'Japanese Festival music' [1940]--kp

kullervopete wrote:

Certainly 'Aus Italien' opus 16 is the earliest example. Strauss described it as a Symphonic fantasy. Its doubtful if J.S. was familier with it. Certainly Sibelius heard 'Don Juan' opus 20 in his student days in Berlin. 'Macbeth' opus 23 is a possible contender, but Kurki's list is probably spot on, Sibelius would certainly have studied those scores. Here is Strauss being ultra-modest again in a quote from 1947. 'I may not be a first-rate composer, but I am a first-class second-rate composer'. I can't agree with that, save perhaps for his 'Japanese Festival music' [1940]--kp

I've not heard his Japanese Festival Music, though I would love to. (I'm sure you all can easily imagine why...!) Have you heard it, Pete? What can you tell me about it?

It seems that the Japanese government commissioned composers from six nations to write music celebrating the 2,600th anniversary of the Japanese Empire. These included Ibert who wrote an overture. Benjamin Britten offered his 'Sinfonia da Reqiem' but the Japanese authorities turned it down, describing the work as an insult. America refused to take part. It was the infamous Joseph Goebbels who gave the Japanese commission to Strauss. I have not heard the piece but I am now curious. It seems that a Cd was issued on Dg of Strauss conducting his own music and the Japanese Festival music was included. A few copies would appear to be available from Amazon.com.

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The piece lasts around 14 minutes and the score includes two harps, organ, 8 horns and cor anglais plus 14 temple gongs. The piece has not been highly thought of by the critics, but as we all know, one needs to form ones own opinion.--kp

kullervopete wrote:

It seems that the Japanese government commissioned composers from six nations to write music celebrating the 2,600th anniversary of the Japanese Empire. These included Ibert who wrote an overture. Benjamin Britten offered his 'Sinfonia da Reqiem' but the Japanese authorities turned it down, describing the work as an insult. America refused to take part. It was the infamous Joseph Goebbels who gave the Japanese commission to Strauss. I have not heard the piece but I am now curious. It seems that a Cd was issued on Dg of Strauss conducting his own music and the Japanese Festival music was included. A few copies would appear to be available from Amazon.com. Only registered users can see links on this forum! Register or Login on forum! The piece lasts around 14 minutes and the score includes two harps, organ, 8 horns and cor anglais plus 14 temple gongs. The piece has not been highly thought of by the critics, but as we all know, one needs to form ones own opinion.--kp

Well, we should get a copy of this, shouldn't we?

Many Japanese composers also took part in writing music for this occasion. It would be interesting to hear Strauss's take on it.

Tapkaara wrote:

Many Japanese composers also took part in writing music for this occasion. It would be interesting to hear Strauss's take on it.

I was wondering if any Japanese composers took part and in particular of course Ifukube. I did a little research on this but did not come up with anything. Tapkaara, any imformation on the Japanese contribution. One wonders what Sibelius might have come up with had he been approached--mind you J.S was to busy with his 8th at that time. --kp

kullervopete wrote:

Tapkaara wrote: Many Japanese composers also took part in writing music for this occasion. It would be interesting to hear Strauss's take on it. I was wondering if any Japanese composers took part and in particular of course Ifukube. I did a little research on this but did not come up with anything. Tapkaara, any imformation on the Japanese contribution. One wonders what Sibelius might have come up with had he been approached--mind you J.S was to busy with his 8th at that time. --kp

Ifukube did take part in this. As did Shiro Fukai, Kunihiko Hashimoto, Hisato Ozawa, and others.

(Not to derail the thread too much) Ifukube's work for this occasion is called Etenraku, which means "acient court music" in Japanese. It is about 2 hours long and is a combined work for orchestra, choir and ballet. dancers. It requires about 600 participants. It was performed once in 1940, but has not been performed/recorded since. It is said to be difficult to pull off due to the time and forces required. The score is extant, but there are no plans to record it any time soon.

I'd have LOVED to hear Sibelius's take on the Japanese musical idiom. If only...

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Ifukube conducting the premiere of 'Etenraku' in Tokyo [1940]

Thanks, I would love to hear this piece if it is ever recorded. It seems that Ifukube really went to town with this commision.-kp

kullervopete wrote:

Only registered users can see links on this forum! Register or Login on forum! Ifukube conducting the premiere of 'Etenraku' in Tokyo [1940] Thanks, I would love to hear this piece if it is ever recorded. It seems that Ifukube really went to town with this commision.-kp

Ifukube always "went to town," as it were!

I'll let you know, Pete, if it ever does make it to disc. I for one am chomping at the bit to hear it...