I kindly ask forum members to help me with a little brainstorming here, and suggest ending of other symphonic works that parallel the 7 endings of the symphonies. I have a specific reason for asking this which I will reveal much later, lets just have a little fun now and let the creative juices flow.

An example: Sibelius 4th, Tchaikovsky 6th

But for the purpose of this excersize, please don't limit yourselves to Symphonies, feel free to mirror the ends of Sibelius' symphonies with other composers' tone-poems or whatever you like. Or perhaps even with the endings of "non-Finale" movements of other symphonies, I'm just looking for as many symphonic parallels as you can come up with.

I have my own long list with several options for each Symphony, but I won't post it here as I don't want to influence anybody's ideas.

Thanks!

(I'm being horrifically distracted by Shostakovich at the moment... )

Sibelius 1 - Sibelius 7 (it does end the same way but huger... oh, different composers... ugh. Don't ask me that!!!)
Sibelius 2 - I dunno, Mahler 8? Plagal cadences!!!
Sibelius 3 - Shostakovich 5?
Sibelius 4 - Mahler 6? I don't know anything that ends this way.
Sibelius 5 - Beethoven 3
Sibelius 6 - Is there another symphony that ends like this one? I haven't heard it. I bet the Gorecki 3rd does, but I've never heard it.
Sibelius 7 - Rubbra 6... maybe

Some of these end so oddly that I'm hard-pressed to think of similar endings.

Sibelius 1 - Ballata Sinfonica by Ifukube. Both end with a ruckus which then ultimately quites and concudes with (I think) accented notes played ppp. In S1 it's two notes, in Ballata Sinfonica it's three.

Sibelius 2 - Mahler 2. Both end with power and glory with lots of brass.

Sibelius 3 - I'll have to think about this.

Sibelius 4 - Tchaikovsky 6. This is a good match up. Both end pessimistically, almost when you least expect it.

Sibelius 5 - I'l have to think about this too. I'm not sure anthing can really compoare to it. This is one of the most unique, distinctive endings in the symphonic repertoire.

Sibelius 6 - I will have to think about this.

Sibelius 7 - I will have to think about this too, but that sustained chord at the end (regardless of whether or not it is held long or short) reminds of of the final chord of an organ work. I'm sure there is soething in JS Bach that will come to mind and I will keep you updated.

Keeping things close to ‘home’, one might point out a certain similarity between the end of the first movement of the Fifth and the end of Lemminkäinen’s Return. Or, indeed, with the end of the E major Sonatina for violin, Op. 80.

Andrew B wrote:

... a certain similarity between the end of the first movement of the Fifth and the end of Lemminkäinen’s Return.

Take a look

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, another example of great minds thinking alike...

This is an exceedingly difficult question that Kurki has opened up. Sibelius is so highly individual a composer and so idiosyncratic in his approach to form and content that I could only offer any comparison, at least with other composers works using guidlines such as 'heroic', 'tragic' or 'pastoral' etc.

I don't think that Sibelius 4 and Tchaikovsky 6 are close bedfellows. This is certainly the Russians greatest Symphony but the ending is full of self-pity and over ripe indulgence and truely tragic. Sibelius closes his great work with stoic A minor chords but these are as heroic as anything in Beethoven. Two possible contenders are the Sixth Symphony of Gustav Mahler and the Fourth Symphony of Brahms. Both these works end in disaster.

A possible match might be the last movements of Sibelius 6 and Vaughan Williams 5 Both these movements move from inner tension and profound turmoil into bright sunlet uplands and serenity.

If I think of any more then I will get back.--kp

kullervopete wrote:

A possible match might be the last movements of Sibelius 6 and Vaughan Williams 5.

Ah geez I never thought of that, thanks for this one, kullervopete!

The idea of labels such as "tragic", "heroic" etc. is actually exactly what I'm looking for... come on people, a few more attempts and I'll let the cat out of the bag...

Well, in concept, Rubbra's 10th symphony is very like Sibelius' 7th. Both are in one movement, both are quite less than a half hour (Rubbra's less than 20 minutes!), and both use thematic development to an unprecedented degree.

Using World Violists criterion the third symphony of Roy Harris equally reflects Sibelius seventh. Looking back from Haydn at the development of the symphony, I would cite Schumanns fourth in D minor as an important precursor of Sibelius 7.
I think that En saga has parallels with the finale of Borodins E flat Symphony, I'm thinking of that dominating persistent rhythm.
I've been struggling to find a parallel with the ending of Sibelius's first symphony, the only piece that I can think of is Mendelssohn's 'Fingals Cave' with its soft final pizzicato!-kp

Sibelius first Symphony and Dvoraks ninth [New World]
Both these finale's reveal a love of Country, but after blazing brass both works come quitely down to earth.

Sibelius second Symphony and Shostakovitch seventh [Leningrad]
Both these works evince considerable struggle and both suggest a final victory.--kp

I have always thought that the first movement of Sibelius's Fourth Symphony parallels the opening movement of Schuberts 'Unfinished' Symphony [No. 8] right to the end. I can't think of any other great works as close in feeling as these two.--kp

kullervopete and all, I've registered your plea to uncover this mystery, I will post about it by the end of this week (my internet time has been somewhat restricted lately).

So here it is, the mystery unveiled. This topic has to do with my presentation of Sibelius' 5th Symphony to my orchestra and our audience during the 2009-10 season, the concert taking place on March 26th 2010.

In the past, I have held pre-concert lectures when presenting Sibelius' larger-scale works (Symphonies 3+7, Luonnotar), which has met with a very positive reaction. Our listeners are definitely hearing most of these pieces for the first time, and I strongly doubt that any of them do any ambitious CD shopping in far-away Prague to "prepare" themselves for the season. The lectures therefore guarantee at least some sort of guided listening the first time through relatively difficult works.

In preparation for the 5th, I have decided to give the pre-concert-lecture concpet a bit of a twist. The first half of the concert will be a "lecture performance", featuring the most thrilling and characteristic endings to Symphonies of all time (albeit in my opinion), including the endings to all 7 Sibelius symphonies. While the focus is indeed on Sibelius, the endings will be grouped by type -- I will be therefore speaking about the different kinds of endings that composers write, and then we will play one "famous" one of that type, and a corresponding one by Sibelius.

Here is what I have come up with thus far:

• all pieces listed refer to the very end of the Symphony unless otherwise indicated
  
• the ending excerpt will typically be 1-2 minutes long, dependant on finding a good structural point at which to start
  
• the different endings may not be presented in exactly this order, this is a working concept
  
• the non-Sibelian excerpts are subject to change, please speak up if you have an idea!

The Classical Ending
Beethoven's 5th
Sibelius 3rd

The Triumphant Ending
- explained as an "offshoot" of the Classical ending -
Dvořák New World
Sibelius 2nd

The Dramatic Ending
Mozart 40th or Schubert Unfinished (1st mvmt) ?
Sibelius 1st

The Tragic Ending
- explained as an "offshoot" of the Dramatic ending -
Tchaikovsky 6th
Sibelius 4th

The Epic Ending
- with emphasis on unity and closure -
Brahms 3rd
Sibelius 7th

The Enigmatic Ending
Strauss Don Juan or ... ?
Sibelius 6th

The Ending of Endings
Sibelius 5th


So, now that you all see the concept behind my original post, perhaps it will spark some ideas and suggestions? As you can see from my question marks above, I am not thrilled with my ideas thus far about [Mozart 40/Schubert Unfinished] and Don Juan, especially the latter, as it isn't a symphony. That said, I would always like very much to have the first, non-Sibelian piece be a well-known work by a well-known composer, with our audience qualifying that criteria, so very mainstream, in other words. While I'm sure Bax, Elgar, Harris, Rubbra, Ifukube and others could all easily make it into this presentation, our audience will not identify with these works and I'm afraid my point would not be made.

Also, I would like not to play any Mahler or Shostakovich, for reasons of orchestration and taste (hehe).

With regards to how the 5th will be presented, I'm toying with the idea of making that part of the presentation a bit longer (I'm looking to make the entire first half about half an hour long).

After discussing the genesis of the piece and its unprecedented depth of revision, I would maybe play a few key exceprts from each movement. I would then pick up the final movement at the Largamente assai after letter "O" (the audience will have heard the horns in an excerpt of the "Swan theme" already) and play right up to but not including the last 6 chords. I would then make a tongue-in-cheek remark that if everyone wishes to hear how this "Ending of Endings" sounds, they'll have to come back for the 2nd half of the concert.

So that's that. Any comments and suggestions are welcome!

It was certainly worth the wait Kurki and I don't have many reservations with your list.

I still think however that Dvoraks New World would be better placed with Sibelius one, for the reasons that I gave earlier.

Again looking at tragedy, for me the ending of Sibelius four is as heroic as anything in music. So Tchaikovsky six is a none runner!

As regards Sibelius three, I would personally go for any of the Mendelssohn symphonies.--kp

I know this isn't a symphony either, but it's still more of a symphony than is Don Juan and it would fit the whole "enigmatic ending" premise. Holst's Planets... though it isn't so mainstream. I can't think of any enigmatic endings in the super-mainstream literature. Sibelius 6 isn't really mainstream either, though. Hmm....

This is drawing a blank in me. I'll come back if I think of anything...

kullervopete wrote:

As regards Sibelius three, I would personally go for any of the Mendelssohn symphonies.

A good thought, Mendelssohn's Third symphony fits very well with it's chorale-like concluding section, and we played it in 2009.

World Violist wrote:

... it would fit the whole "enigmatic ending" premise. Holst's Planets...

Another fine thought, Neptune's ending certainly leave's one guessing.

I love how the ending of Neptune ends the planets. The suite begins with such a bang, but it ends with so much mystery. It as if you have finished cruising through the solar system and you are getting farther and farther away from our most distant planet as you continue into the remote darkness. The Planets is certainly one of my all time favorites...

For me the Poco vivace third movement of Sibelius six is almost Sibelius's 'Jupiter'--kp