Sibelius said of the 7th to Jussi Jalas:

"The entire seventh symphony has very much in common with antiquity, especially Greece. The trombones are handled like the musical instruments of antiquity."

I have always been very fascinated by this quote. Fascinated because of its mystery. What exactly does Sibelius mean by this.

Do the trombones, for example, "sound" Greek? Does Sibelius intentionally include a trombone theme that takes direct inspiration (quotation?) from the music of ancient Greece? Or another ancient civilization?

Insight into this would be appreciated.

This subject also facinates me. For me the Seventh Symphony certainly exhibits an Olympian serenity and repose. Sibelius had studied Greek and Latin, his favourite writers being Goethe and Horace. The Oceanides is certainly based on Homer and the sea Nymphs of classical antiquity. Also Pan and Echo is linked to this world.

As regards the Seventh Symphony, Sibelius wrote to a friend in 1918 'It will be in three movements, the last an Hellenic Rondo'. Of course as we all know the three movements became an unprecedented single movement, but something of this Hellenic Rondo remains. I suppose that in this music, Sibelius transports us above and beyond our mundane existance, perhaps to the world of Classical Antiquity.-kp

It is dangerous to write about this because I dont know enough.

What I have read about music of antiquity, doesn`t tell much about of using brass instruments, but trumpet fanfares were known. Instruments were like kithara, lyra, aulos and drum. There is notated music and we know the theory, which is complex.

Because they knew a brass instrument, melodies made of harmonic series were possible, of course. The trombone theme could be possible to play on a natural horn, except the low E which should be C in so low register.

What is interesting that same form than in s-motif is mentioned in the music of antiquity.

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If I`m wrong, please correct me.

Ah yes, another "Greek" reference to the 7th...Sibelius inted a "Hellenic rondo" for the final movement.

What would have been so "Hellenic" about it, I wonder?

Obviously, Sibelius had something "Greek," or at least ancient in his mind while concoting this work. I find it so fascinating.

Indeed, it is an "Olympian" work, in that one feels the climb a mighty mountain up until that idiosyncratic ending.

If there is a Greek connection, it must have been a result of Sibelius's thorough reading of Greek myths rather than from hearing contemporary Greek music (Skalkottas, anybody? - dedecaphony meets ouzo...) - and of course he never actually visited Greece.

Well, I think it's very safe to assume there is nothing inherently "Greek" about the 7th. At least in terms of "modern Greek culture". This is different from ancient Greek culture, the same way ancient Egypt has really nothing to do with modern Egypt.

(I don't recall hearing any plate smashing in Sibbe's 7th.)

At any rate, I interpret Sibelius's quotes to mean that the 7th is his take on what music of ancient civilizations would have sounded like. Does anyone really know what the music of ancient Greece sounded like? Probably not. So Sibelius, in his genius, takes his fantasies of musicians from the days of "antiquity" and translates them into a symphony of singular distinction.

What is a "Hellenic rondo," really? Is there a true answer? Perhaps not, but again...this is Sibelius's mad genius at work.

Or maybe there is a secret program based on Greek myths. Obviously, The Oceanides, the Dryad and the Bard all take their origins from ancient Greek mythology, so this type of thing was not unknown to the composer.

I guess one will really never know, but these peculiar quotes about the 7th will never cease to get my imagination riled.

Its interesting that in classical antiquity we have no bow playing instruments. All the ancient string insruments did not use bows, they were plucked, sometimes a plectrum was used. I have always been facinated by Sibelius's use of 'Pizzicato'. This plays a vital role in all his symphonies.--perhaps a coincidence, I wonder.-kp

I thought about the "antiquity" reference a lot in preparing for my lecture and performance of the 7th back in April 2007.

I believe that Sibelius was referring to the spirit of antiquity, whatever that meant to him, rather than something specific. His mention of the trombones was perhaps in reference to the fact that the big trombone theme uses much of the natural harmonic sequence, and to my ears is imbued with a "timeless spirit of long-ago", paradox intended.

Pete,

Yes, pizzicato is a common technique not only in Sibbe's symphonies, but just about everywhere in his output. This could indeed be due to an affinity for the "old time sound" of plucked string instruments, before bows were all the rage.

As for the trombones in the 7th, I think you make an excellent point, Kurki. The scale used could be the key here.

Also discussed on this forum is Sibelius's studies of renaissance polyphony. (Enter reference to the 6th Symphony here.) Obviously, Sibelius seems more interested in the musical trends of the past throughout his career more than with those of the future. However, in so doing, he ends up sounding quite ahead of his time, and not stuck in the past somehow.

Sibelius's music is tryly not the product of any one time or musical movement. He's probably among a small handful of composers whose musis is truly "timeless," in every sense of the word.