The Sibelius Forum The Sibelius Forum
A discussion forum about the life and works of Jean Sibelius
 
FAQ :: Search :: Memberlist :: Usergroups :: Register
Profile :: Log in to check your private messages :: Log in

The Dryad

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Sibelius Forum Forum Index -> The Tone Poems
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
kullervopete
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 1121
Location: Bury Lancs UK

PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:04 am    Post subject: The Dryad Reply with quote


Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!



Sibelius completed his Tone Poem or Picture in 1910. Its a most interesting piece and still neglected. Dryads are tree-nymphs in Greek mythology.

The Dryad opens most myseriously and its closeness to the fourth symphony is evident. One is reminded of the second group, bars 13-15 of the symphonies opening movement. Sibelius employs a fairly large orchestra including castonets, which if I remember correctly he had also used in the earlier 'Wood-Nymph' tone poem opus15.

The Dryad is a finer piece than some critics have made out and fortunatly can be heard on many compilations of Sibelius's orchestral music.--kp

_________________
Peter Frankland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kurkikohtaus
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 930
Location: Praha, CZ

PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for this tip, kullervopete, The Dryad is a piece that I'm not familiar with at all, so I decided to listen to it a few times today, I have the Groves/Liverpool recording which I've promptly posted about in the "Lurking" thread (
Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

).

There are certainly some fine moments in this piece, the one you mention that reminds you of the 4th Symphony I believe relates to the chord change just before the little horn call (in the Symphony, that is). What I enjoy in this piece quite a bit is how the chromatically meandering melodic lines fall gracefully and unforcefully into consonances at the ends of phrases, showing that Sibelius was a little more optimistic when writing this music than he was when composing the 4th Symphony.

_________________

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

-
Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
World Violist
Concertmaster
Concertmaster


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 403

PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got Vänskä's reading of this piece, and so went to that when I saw what was being said about the Dryad. It certainly is very interesting... and short! It's very interesting to consider just how versatile Sibelius was about his tone poems; they could be any length, any tonality, any instrumentation (from castanets in the Dryad and Wood-Nymph to a soprano in Luonnotar, etc.).

But anyway, yes the Dryad is very mysterious at the beginning, but it blossoms some way through. The poetic aspect of this is most interesting as well, I think. It isn't like Pohjola's Daughter or Tapiola where poetry plays second-fiddle to the overall hauntedness of it... more of a behind-the-scenes thing. But the Dryad has poetry take center stage.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kullervopete
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 1121
Location: Bury Lancs UK

PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think what is so remarkable about Sibelius's Tone Poems, and The Dryad is a case in point, is that each one is so amazingly different to the other. The contrasts between En Saga, The Dryad and The Bard are all achieved with a handful of characteristic ingrediants. Also Sibelius is able in pieces like The Dryad to establish a profound atmosphere in the space of a few bars.

I have the Charles Groves album on the original LP [Spring Song' The Lighter Music Of Sibelius] for me 'The Dryad' is no lightweight piece despite its brevity. Sibelius identified deeply with trees. He even wrote a fine song 'I am a tree' opus 57 No. 5.--kp

_________________
Peter Frankland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
World Violist
Concertmaster
Concertmaster


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 403

PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's also rather interesting to notice how people call themselves other things; it's rather eerily forshadowing that "I am a Tree" was written probably some 50 years before the Simon & Garfunkel song "I am a Rock," but that's rather beside the point... Wink

Yes, I agree much with kp; all of the tone poems are quite distinct one from the other, as are the symphonies as well. I think in those two genres at least there is a progression that can be easily followed... what about songs, though? The only Sibelius "song" I know at all is Luonnotar, but I know he wrote plenty of them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kurkikohtaus
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 930
Location: Praha, CZ

PostPosted: Sun Nov 02, 2008 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

for the best place in the World to discuss Sibelius' vocal music.

Briefly, Norden and Kaiutar are my favourites...

_________________

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

-
Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
kullervopete
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 1121
Location: Bury Lancs UK

PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I urge World Violist to explore the Sibelius songs of which their are well over 100 and now widely available. My particular favourites are 'Arioso' [1893] and 'The diamond on the March snow' [1899]

To return to 'The Dryad' its interesting that Tawastsjerna suggests the influence of Claude Debussy here. Sibelius had heard the French masters 'Nocturnes' for the first time in London in 1909.

It seems that Sibelius must have admired Debussy whose influence can also be felt in Later tone poems 'The Oceanides' and 'Tapiola'.--kp

_________________
Peter Frankland


Last edited by kullervopete on Mon Nov 03, 2008 1:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Andrew B
Soloist
Soloist


Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 684
Location: Brighton, England

PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kurki: you may need to move this post to the Song area - up to you! I'll stick it here for now so that the present train of thought continues...

Meanwhile I'll join Kullervopete in advocating the songs.
They certainly do reflect the progress he made in other genres BUT, and it's a big but (spelt with one t), it is by no means a complete reflection. In short, he started writing them too late ( 1887–88 ) and finished too early (only one genuine new song after 1918, Narciss in 1925, if we discount the Masonic pieces) so there are whole areas of his orchestral output that don't have a correspondence in the songs. And mostly they are to Swedish texts so there's no equivalent of the Kalevala-Romantic works (to use a slighjtly imprecise term) - except for a couple of transcriptions, of course.

Incidentally the BIS song box will be out in December - 135 songs in all, including the transcriptions and alternative versions. Roughly half the set is newly recorded - and spectacularly so - with Helena Juntunen, Gabriel Suovanen, Jorma Hynninen (plus the existing von Otter and Groop recordings). Many unheard items as well, including some absolute gems. So... get drooling!

_________________

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kullervopete
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 1121
Location: Bury Lancs UK

PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Andrew, the Bis set will make a superb Christmas gift!

Earlier I cited the influence of Debussy on 'The Dryad' and other works. I should point out that impressionistic elements can be found in Sibelius's music as far back as the 1890's. Sibelius would not have heard any of Debussy's music at this time. Further evidence in my view that Sibelius's music was well abreast of contemporary trends.--kp

_________________
Peter Frankland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
World Violist
Concertmaster
Concertmaster


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 403

PostPosted: Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew B, thanks very much for notifying me of the songs box, I was caught entirely unawares...

Yes, if some of Sibelius' works aren't quite impressionistic, I'm not sure what is. Tapiola is probably the most blatantly impressionistic score in my mind, though I suppose the lot of the tone poems at least have some note of impressionism in them. And it almost seems that the Oceanides vaguely resembles the "Sirens" movement of Debussy's Nocturnes, if I'm not mistaken. At least, the falling motifs of both are in common...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kullervopete
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 1121
Location: Bury Lancs UK

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see works such as 'The Dryad', 'The Oceanides' or 'Tapiola' as being overtly impressionistic.

As I suggested, the influence of Debussy can be decerned, but in my view Sibelius was moving ever closer to 'expressionism' in late works like the seventh symphony and Tapiola.

This is the tendency among artists to subordinate realism to the symbolic or stylistic expression of the artists or characters inner experience. It is a tendency to discard rules and conventions and thus obtain complete freedom for the composers self-expression.

In this respect Sibelius was moving closer to Schoenberg.--kp

_________________
Peter Frankland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tapkaara
Soloist
Soloist


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 725
Location: San Diego, CA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah yes, The Dryad. What a strange, dark tone poem.

Despite its brevity, The Dryad certainly has a lot to say in terms of its weird harmonies, semi-sinister melodies...and those castanets!

In a way, it is a very concise distillation of Sibelius's general sound world. It's a work that is much over-looked but should not be. I suppose it is not performed much in concert due to is length, but it should be counted as one of the most original tone poems ever written by any composer.

_________________
"Music is not philosophy."
-- Akira Ifukube

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
kullervopete
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 1121
Location: Bury Lancs UK

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree wholeheartedly that 'The Dryad' in one of the most original tone poems, but is it really neglected in the concert hall because of its shortness? Traditionally huge pieces like Mahlers 8th symphony have suffered in this respect, probably because of the large forces required in performance.

In the case of 'The Dryad' I wonder. Its perhaps too substantial a work for use as an encore, though pieces such as Lemminkainen's Return are sometimes given. Sadly as with much of the piano music this delightful tone poem is still over shadowed by the 'bigger' orchestral works. Sad --kp

_________________
Peter Frankland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kurkikohtaus
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 930
Location: Praha, CZ

PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tapkaara wrote:
In a way, it is a very concise distillation of Sibelius's general sound world.

That's a beautiful and meaningful sentence, Tapkaara, and coincidentally, I used basically the same words this summer when describing a part of Dvořákův Czech Suite to my orchestra.

In terms of the "Ultimate distillation" of Sibelius' sound world, I would vote for The Bard.

Which gives me a great idea for a thread... click

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

to participate!

_________________

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

-
Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Tapkaara
Soloist
Soloist


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 725
Location: San Diego, CA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I meant by The Dryad's "brevity," Pete, is that is is so short that fitting it into a concert program could be a little tricky. Where would you put it? As an overture...I'm sure not. Before or after the concerto...?

I suppose even at many Sibelius-only concerts, The Dryad is overlooked. A shame, truly a shame.

_________________
"Music is not philosophy."
-- Akira Ifukube

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Kurkikohtaus
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 930
Location: Praha, CZ

PostPosted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would pair it at the beginning of a program with another short piece, possibly something contemporary.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Sibelius Forum Forum Index -> The Tone Poems All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum



Top posters
1. kullervopete
2. Andrew B
3. Tapkaara


Click HERE to make suggestions on what to do with this box!



smartDark Style by Smartor
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
 

Abuse - Report Abuse
Powered by forumup.com free forum, create your free forum!
Created by Raulken of Hyarbor S.r.l.
TOS & Privacy.

Page generation time: 0.048