Sib 4 and TAPIOLA are usually thought of two of the master's "darkest" works; often, they are also described as "bleak" or desolate."

Aside for these two obvious choices, what do you think it Sibelius's "darkest" work?

I thought about this this and I came to the conclusion of POHJOLA'S DAUGHTER. I have always thought there is something very dark, perhaps disturbing in this work.

Aside from the occassional triumphant sounding brass, the rest of this piece's textures are very sinister.

I think Pohjola's Daughter takes the cake for other "darkest" works by Sibelius. I think of it somewhat like I do the Elgar Cello Concerto: Very dark beginning, lighter middle, very dark end = very dark work in general. So, Pohjola's Daughter I would definitely agree with.

Can't readily think of anything else, though... I'm none too familiar with other dark Sibelius works than Tapiola and Pohjola's Daughter... I really must listen to the Fourth more...

Glad I am, so far, not the only one who agrees with me on POHJOLA'S DAUGHTER.

Of course, darkness and melancholy are not rare within Sibelius in general. One could go down a list and site other dark works:

The Swan
En Saga
Wood Nymph
Kullervo
etc.

En Saga is also very dark to my ears. Black with blotchs of violent red.

I have a very active imagination. Sibelius's music makes my imagination come alive!

A very good dark performance that I own of POHJOLA is from the 1930's conducted by R. Kajanus. I'm not at home so I don;t have access to the CD, but it's from the 1930s...and I'm trying to remember the orchestra...London Phil, perhaps? I will have to verify this later.

While the sound is what you'd expect given the age of the recording, this is a very intense, haunting performance. The primitive sound actually lends something to the experience...very grim...ominous...

I think it's Helsinki, isn't it? He was the founder/conductor of it, anyway... and I think his Sibelius CD's were with them.

Yes, Kullervo fits in here well, also. Not so sure about the others, I should listen to them more...

The Swan of Tuonela is dark, but not in a menacing way. It's more melancholy than sinister.

En Saga and Kullervo are similar in that they represent, to me, a sort of "primitive" darkness. They are portals to a mysterious, barabric past; blackholes to something wild and formidable.

At least they don't burst wish sunshine like a Vivaldi concerto!

I would like to add the Prelude and Storm from the Tempest.

I would not say that Pohjola's Daughter is "dark", I prefer to call it "brooding". A question of semantics, I guess...

Kurki, I was thinking about The Tempest a few hours ago and how it should be added to the list. "The Strorm" is a very imposing piece, to be sure.

Yes, Pohjola's Daughter is "brooding." Something that broods is dark in nature, isn't it? I guess it is a question of semantics, just as you put forth.

Haydn's "Surprise" Symphony doesn't brood very much, does it?

By the way, I just ordered the recording of Mikko Franck's FOUR LEGENDS and EN SAGA. Has anyone heard this recording?

Mikko Franck, not a bad disc at all!

Kajanus's Pohjola's Daughter is with the LSO, 1932 - he was already wery ill when it was recorded.

As for a 'dark' work I have a really off-beat suggestion: the FIFTH Symphony. Not dark in tone - but listening also to the 1915 version you see how he worked his way 'up' from the tone of the Fourth. And then there's the whole business of Axel Carpelan's death in 1919 and the symphony being in effect (never explicitly stated) a memorial to him...

Mikko Frank's En Saga with the Swedish Radio Symphony (2000) is my favourite rendition to date, in terms of tempos. Because En Saga leaves a lot of room for tempo interpretation for every conductor to make, I find that tempos vary quite significantly from recording to recording, and it is hard for me to find one where I like every tempo in every section.

I have the Mikko Franck 'Four Legends and En Saga', brilliant sound quality and good performances, but Ormandy is better.
A dark work? How about 'The Bard' this introspective and musing work is one of his greatest and still gravely neglected. It seems a very dark piece to me, despite the prominant harp.--kullervopete.

With The Bard, I always tend to think about delicate and fragile rays of light permeating through a shadowy forest. While the darkness of the forest lays the foundation of the piece, the gentle, fleeting light is what this music is about for me.

Kurki's point about 'Delicate and fragile rays of light....' is well made. It seems to me that much of Sibelius's music is filled with the play of light against a prominently dark background.
A good example is the violin concerto, were the violin frequently sings with a 'luminosity' against the gloomy backdrop. Even in a work like the fourth symphony, despite the prevailing darkness we have shafts of light penetrating the clouds. Even at the very end, the flute and oboe dialogue is like the first glimmer of the dawn. What did Sibelius say 'The fourth symphony is breaking out in sunshine and strength'.
Oddly enough I dont see Pohjola's Daughter as being a particuarly dark piece. Granted the very opening with a brooding cello is pretty grey, but soon our hero Vainamoinen is shooting along on his sledge in bright sunlight. We see the Maid of Pohjola spinning, on a rainbow and its all in the orchestration, bright and vivid. Vainamoinen tries to carry out the tasks that she has set him, but they prove to much even for him. After a tremendous climax, the gloom descends once more as our dejected hero makes his way home with his tail between his legs. Not in my opinion one of his darker works.--kullervopete.

It's all a matter of opinion, isn't it?

Indeed, Pohjola's Daughter has moments of dashing heroism that pierce through the darkness, but the parts that are dark are pretty dark!

I've always felt a great amount of menace in this work.

I agree with The Bard being added to this list. There is a delicate sadness in this work that is punctuated from time to time by glimmers of light. The light is always overtaken, however.

A few months ago I was listening (online) to the BBC's Discovering Music and they did a show on The Swam of Tuonela. The host did an excellent break down of the piece and explained how the Swan, also, is primarily a dark background through which shafts of lights occassionally break through. This is obviously a common trait of Sibelius.

Yes indeed, Tuonela is the land of death in the Kalevala so its going to be pretty dark.
The score bears the following inscription : 'Tuonela, the hell of Finnish mythology, is surrounded by a large river with black waters and a rapid current, on which the swan of Tuonela floats majestically and sings in melancholy voice'.
This is for sure a strangely sinister but beautiful piece, and one of his darkest. Especially the second half, almost like a funeral march.--kullervopete.

When I think "dark", I think dark colors/timbres -- cellos, double basses, bassoons, bass clarinets, etc. I suppose one could argue that this "darkness" pervades practically the entire Sibelian oeuvre.

As to "emotional" darkness as experienced in a piece in toto, I'm hard-pressed to think of anything outside those works eliminated from consideration by Tapkaara.

I'm tempted, however, to suggest Esa-Pekka Salonen's renditions of Symphony No. 5 and Pohjola's Daughter on CBS, as I brought up in the "Sibelian Disasters" thread -- Zoloft, anyone?

Andrew B wrote:

As for a 'dark' work I have a really off-beat suggestion: the FIFTH Symphony. Not dark in tone - but listening also to the 1915 version you see how he worked his way 'up' from the tone of the Fourth. And then there's the whole business of Axel Carpelan's death in 1919 and the symphony being in effect (never explicitly stated) a memorial to him...

Speaking of the original versions of works, might'n't the Yale version of the Oceanides be considered dark (not quite the "darkest" of course, but still...)? It seems rather subdued to me, in the naturally darker, mellower, more intimate key of D-flat, and with thicker textures to begin it than in the one more commonly known today.

Moldyoldie wrote:

When I think "dark", I think dark colors/timbres -- cellos, double basses, bassoons, bass clarinets, etc. I suppose one could argue that this "darkness" pervades practically the entire Sibelian oeuvre.

I agree completely. Sibelius is known, I think, for this generally "dark" sound. And honestly, this is one of the many reasons his music appeals to me so much. I find his sound world to be haunting, mysterious...perhaps ominous. There is an undeniable depth and intrigue.

Dark and forbidding is perhaps Sibelius's middle name.
But surely in the Sixth Symphony, the master bask's in bright and radiant sunlight--bass clarinet and all!--kullervopete.

Moldyoldie wrote:

When I think "dark", I think dark colors/timbres -- cellos, double basses, bassoons, bass clarinets, etc. I suppose one could argue that this "darkness" pervades practically the entire Sibelian oeuvre.

I would take that one step further and say that it is not "darkness for darkness' sake" that permeates all of Sibelius' music, but the play and contrast between darkness and light. For example, from the list of instruments that moldyoldie mentions, take the bass clarinet. Certainly a dark instrument, but one of Sibelius' signature sounds in several tone poems (Night Ride, Tapiola...) is the bass clarinet doubled by the piccolo of all instruments, several octaves higher.