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The Sibelius Forum A discussion forum about the life and works of Jean Sibelius
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Andrew B Guest Conductor


Joined: 12 Oct 2006 Posts: 872 Location: Brighton, England
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Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:38 am Post subject: |
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By using a Kalevala text with all its repetitions and alliterations, I suppose it was more or less inevitable that Sib would use such a musical solution in Kullervo. _________________
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Tapkaara Guest Conductor


Joined: 04 Jan 2007 Posts: 904 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| Andrew B wrote: |
| By using a Kalevala text with all its repetitions and alliterations, I suppose it was more or less inevitable that Sib would use such a musical solution in Kullervo. |
Absolutely, Andrew!
I'm not sure if Ifukube knew Sibelius's Kullervo, but I'd think that he would have loved it.
That strange, repetitive runo in 5/4 certainly makes an impact. I think Sibelius truly tapped into supernatural with Kullervo. _________________ "Music is not philosophy."
-- Akira Ifukube
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kullervopete Conductor in Residence


Joined: 08 Jun 2007 Posts: 1450 Location: Bury Lancs UK
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Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 9:19 am Post subject: |
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Its interesting that in 2003 when Vanska and Lahti S. O. gave a performance of Kullervo in Tokyo, the Japanese critics voted it the best classical performance of that year. Also a Japanese Sibelius society is in existence and I have read that Jean Sibelius is widely loved in Japan. It seems that the former Premier is a Sibelius fan. When Junichiro Koizumi visited Finland to attend an ASEM summit, he went to Ainola and listened to his favorite Andante Festivo played by a Chamber orchestra. Last year the 50th anniversary of Sibelius's death was widely celebrated in Japan with many concerts and lectures. It is also claimed that the Japan Philharmonic recorded the worlds first all Sibelius Symphonies in stereo with the great Akeo Watanabe, whose mother was Finnish.--kullervopete. _________________ Peter Frankland |
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Tapkaara Guest Conductor


Joined: 04 Jan 2007 Posts: 904 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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Many very interesting points, Pete!
Yes, Sibelius in widely admired in Japan. I have always found this interesting.
I have a few recordings of Akeo Watanabe. I have all of his symphony recordings execpt the 3rd and the 6th. I should try to track those guys down.
By the way, Ifukube has a recording on the BIS label that is still fairly easy to find. His BALLATA SINFONICA (1943) is on a disc called "Japanese Orchestral Music." BALLATA is the only work by him on that disc, but it's one of my favorite Ifukube pieces. _________________ "Music is not philosophy."
-- Akira Ifukube
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Kurkikohtaus Site Admin


Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 1054 Location: Praha, CZ
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Posted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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I picked up that Naxos CD today in Toronto, can't wait to listen to it! But it will probably have to wait 'till next week when I can do so in peace. |
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Tapkaara Guest Conductor


Joined: 04 Jan 2007 Posts: 904 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:45 am Post subject: |
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Kurki, I'm glad that you were able to find it. I will be just as excited to hear your comments as I was to hear Pete's. I hope you like it!!! _________________ "Music is not philosophy."
-- Akira Ifukube
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Kurkikohtaus Site Admin


Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 1054 Location: Praha, CZ
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Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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Sinfonia Tapkaara
Upon purchasing this Naxos CD, the cover art...
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... immediately reminded me of the cover art used on the Dover Publications score of The Rite of Spring, an image that is firmly entrenched in the mind of anyone who ever studied conducting:
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While the two paintings are obviously very different in style and composition, for some reason my mind established an immediate link between them. I don't know how much this influenced my first hearing of Sinfonia Tapkaara, but my opinions did not change on the 2nd and 3rd times through.
In this piece, I sensed a direct link to the music of Stravinsky, in the best sense possible. From his first 3 big ballets onwards, Stravinsky was doing more than just "writing music", he was establishing a new, coherent and instantly recognizable musical language which other composers could use, all the while remaining original. I feel that Sinfonia Tapkaara does precisely this.
In the 1st movement, I hear a lot of the textures that appear in Stravinsky's Symphony in 3 mvmts (1945), particularily the ostinato rhythms that accompany the second subjects in both pieces. But while in the Stravinsky piece the rhytms are quite "boxy", led along by a steady pulse, Ifukube throws in a lot of odd meters to give the piece a much more jagged rhythmic landscape, contrasted by pleasingly lilting oriental motives.
In the 2nd and 3rd movements of Tapkaara I hear a lot of the polyrhythmic and polymotivic technique used in Petrushka, which is my favourite of the 3 Stravinsky ballets.
The progressive layering of rhythmic and motivic patterns is a lot different than traditional counterpoint, in that while most listeners have trouble hearing 2 melodies in counterpoint and blank out when a 3rd enters the picture, Stravinsky's layering technique allows each rhythmic/motivic pattern to retain its basic, recognizable and identifiable character, because in general, it is not the development of the motive that is the point of the technique but its simple juxtaposition on top of another that provides the interest. This is what I believe to be Stravinsky's greatest contribution towards establishing a musical language for the 20th Century, not just his use of frequent metrical changes.
In these movements, Ifukube takes up that gauntlet and adds his special oriental and dramatic flare, producing music that is very entertaining (in the good sense) but by no means simple or cliché.
I look forward to the other selections! _________________
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Tapkaara Guest Conductor


Joined: 04 Jan 2007 Posts: 904 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 3:58 am Post subject: |
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Yes, the two paintings are rather similar, aren't they?!
I think Naxos generally does a good job at selecting cover art for their releases. When I originally learned that Naxos was going to be releasing this disc, I was very anxious to see the art that they would choose.
I think their selection here is very good. It's detail from a painting called 'A Good Catch' by Aoki Shigeru. Basically, we see a primitive scene of nude fisherman brandishing large spears. It is very earthy and tribal; a very good visual to accompany Ifukube's sounds.
Artisitic similarities are often made between Stravinsky and Ifukube. This is appropriate as Ifukube LOVED Stravinsky.
I was fascinated to read your remarks, Kurki, as you are a conductor and thus have an uncommon insight into the mechanics of music.
Seems like you enjoyed the piece. I'm happy this is the case. SINFONIA TAPKAARA was one of Ifukube's favorite works and it performed, perhaps, more that any other of his works. SYMPHONIC FANTASIA NO. 1 is also very commonly performed.
By the way, TAPKAARA was dedicated in 1954 to the well-known Japanese music critic Atsushi Miura. (Miura was a life-long friend of Ifukube; they had known each other since childhood.) When TAPKAARA premiered, it generally got bad reviews from the Japanese music scene. It was even described as "unmusical" by one Japanese critic. This gave Ifukube much anguish as it seemed to turn his dedication of the work to Miura into an insult.
At the time, avant-garde music was all the rage in Japan. Of course, Ifukube's polar opposite, Toru Takemitsu, led the way in this respect. Ifukube's music seemed odd, perhaps backwards in comparison to the sounds of more "modernist" composers in Japan.
After Takemitsu, Ifukube is generally considered to be the most important Japanese composer. This is interesting as they are indeed opposites. The two composers met only a few times and rarely spoke of each other's works. I'm not sure if Ifukube admired any of Takemitsu's works, but Takemitsu did enjoy Ifukube's RITMICA OSTINATA.
One other interesting point. Another of Ifukube's childhood friends was Fumio Hayasaka. Hayasaka would go on to famously score several of Akira Kurosawa's earlier films. While the two were good friends, the two drifted apart artisically until Hayasaka's untimely death in 1955. While Takemitsu was largely self-taught as a composer (as were Ifukube and Hayasaka), Hayasaka acted as an occasional teacher to Takemitsu. It's very interesting that there is a common link between Ifukube and Takemistu (by way of Fumio Hayasaka) yet their sound worlds are so darn different. _________________ "Music is not philosophy."
-- Akira Ifukube
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Tapkaara Guest Conductor


Joined: 04 Jan 2007 Posts: 904 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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Kurki, have you listened to Ritmica Ostinata and Symphonic Fantasia yet?
I just finished reading Levas's book and he mentions that Sibelius used to receive birthday greetings from a host of international music personalities including Fabien Sevitzky. Sevitzky was the nephew of Serge Koussevitzky and the conductor for the Indianapolis Symphony Orchestra. Anyway, Sevitzky was also a friend of Ifukube...in fact, it was Sevitzky who debuted Sinfonia Tapkaara in 1954. An interesting connection, I thought.
Masaru Sato was a famous Japanese film composer who was a friend of Ifukube. Sato went on to score films for Akira Kurosawa after Fumio Hayasaka's death. In an interview from years ago, Masuru Sato was asked what classical composers he liked. He mentioned that he was not a huge fan of classical music, but did mention about three composers. One was Sibelius! _________________ "Music is not philosophy."
-- Akira Ifukube
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kullervopete Conductor in Residence


Joined: 08 Jun 2007 Posts: 1450 Location: Bury Lancs UK
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Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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Some interesting tit bits here that I have come across about Fabien Sevitzky.
He gave his advice on the secret of a conductors attire. Room for movement is the secret, Sevitzky's stage clothes are between one and two sizes larger than his street dress, and so cut as to provide him particular freedom in movement of the hands and body without throwing his clothing out of shape. His stage shoes are high, with special support for arches and ankles. His stiff bosomed shirt, fastened down in a manner originated by himself, withstands the most violent movements of Sevitzky's conducting. I hope that maestro Kurki will take note.
I've just been looking at some of his recordings with the Indianapolis S. O. some Grieg, Dvorak and Khachaturian, but sadly no Sibelius. But a friend of Sevitzky [Piso Mojado] recalls a live concert with the Indianapolis, in which he conducted the Sibelius second. Mojado remarked that even his uncle Serge Koussevitzky could'nt have played the pizzicato on his bass fiddle better at the end of the second movement. Someone even wrote a novel about it.
Also I have discovered that Sevitzky commissioned the [CENSORED] composer William Grant Still to compose a tone poem 'Threnody: in memory of Jan Sibelius in 1965. If its on Cd, I will seek this out.--kullervopete. _________________ Peter Frankland |
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Tapkaara Guest Conductor


Joined: 04 Jan 2007 Posts: 904 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting stuff, Pete. You must have access to tons of information on many subjects!
Where did you sample these Sevitzky performances? I would like to hear them myself. _________________ "Music is not philosophy."
-- Akira Ifukube
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Kurkikohtaus Site Admin


Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 1054 Location: Praha, CZ
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Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Tapkaara wrote: |
| Kurki, have you listened to Ritmica Ostinata and Symphonic Fantasia yet? |
Still getting around to it, want to make sure I put it on when I can concentrate on it and not just have it playing in the background. |
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Tapkaara Guest Conductor


Joined: 04 Jan 2007 Posts: 904 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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Ah, very good then!
It will be especially fascinating to hear a conductor's take on this music that I love so much. _________________ "Music is not philosophy."
-- Akira Ifukube
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kullervopete Conductor in Residence


Joined: 08 Jun 2007 Posts: 1450 Location: Bury Lancs UK
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Posted: Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:20 am Post subject: |
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Tapkaara, I hav'nt actually heard the performances. I just did a search on Google for Jean Sibelius and Fabien Sevitzky. I then found a list of recordings by the Indianapolis Symphony under their various chief conductors, including Sevitzky and Raymond Leppard. Leppard is another conductor who has given some fine Sibelius performances, and especially of the Seventh.--kullervopete. _________________ Peter Frankland |
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kullervopete Conductor in Residence


Joined: 08 Jun 2007 Posts: 1450 Location: Bury Lancs UK
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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 6:21 am Post subject: |
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Interesting Tapkaara that you mentioned Masaru Sato [1928-1999]
I did not know that he too had written music for some Godzilla films. I see that Sato wrote in a lighter and at times Jazzy style, much different to Ifukube. Sato composed the music for over 300 films, but unlke Ifukube he did not write for the concert hall. Here's an interesting quote from Sato. 'Mr Ifukube cherished Godzilla, and treated Godzilla's story as a great tragedy, whereas I always treated Godzilla and the son as friends'.
Once again, another Japanese composer citing Sibelius along with Stravinsky and de Falla, as great loves.
And now here is yet another, Takashi Yoshimatsu [born in Tokyo in 1953] he has completet five symphonies and is also a great admirer of Sibelius. He studied under Teizo Matsumura who had been a pupil of Ifukube.--kullervopete. _________________ Peter Frankland |
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Tapkaara Guest Conductor


Joined: 04 Jan 2007 Posts: 904 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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All very true, Pete.
Very interestingly, Sato never once wrote for the concert hall. His output is limited entirely to the world of film. This has always frustrated me because I would have loved (as would man, many others!!) to have heard a symphony, concerto, tone poem, etc. by him.
Yes, one could definitely say his style is "lighter" than Ifukube's. Perhaps more "jazzy" too, but that depends on the film. Some of his Godzilla work is very light-hearted and "jazzy" whereas some of his period film work (like Kurosawa's Throne of Blood) is more "old fashioned."
There is a clip of Sato conducting Ifukube on you tube at the following link:
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Here, he is seen conducting the Osaka Sinfonica which is, I believe, an amateur orchestra. Sato commented: "This music sounds easy to conduct, but it's not!"
Regarding Yoshimatsu, his Threnoody to Toki for string orchestra and piano is a staple of Japanese concert repertoire. It's a modernist piece, and as such, I have a little bit of a hard time making a connection to it.
By the way, Yoshimatsu's Threnody is available on yet another Naxos disc called "Japanese Orchestral Favourites." This is a fabulous album. It also has a recording of Ifukube's first orchestral piece, Japanese Rhapsody. My only quibble with the recording of Rhapsody is it's taken a little slowly. But the sound is superb!!
From the description on the back of the CD: "Ifukube's Japanese Rhapsody, which was first performed in Boston, evokes the atmosphere of the traditional Japanese matsuri (festivity), with striking orchestration. The work was admired by figures such as SIBELIUS, Roussel and Ibert."
Note: It was Fabien Sevitzky who premiered the pice in Boston. _________________ "Music is not philosophy."
-- Akira Ifukube
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kullervopete Conductor in Residence


Joined: 08 Jun 2007 Posts: 1450 Location: Bury Lancs UK
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 9:14 am Post subject: |
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I was wondering how Ifukube's music would fit into a concert programme, which composers to place alongside him?
The Kalamazoo Symphony Orchestra performed 'Ritmica Ostinato' last march. The pianist was former Ifukube pupil, Reiko Yamada. The other works in the concert were Respighi's 'The Birds', Takemitsu's 'Dream/Window' and Hindemith's 'Symphonic Metamorphoses'. Does this seem good programme planning?--kullervopete. _________________ Peter Frankland |
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Tapkaara Guest Conductor


Joined: 04 Jan 2007 Posts: 904 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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I was at that concert! Reiko is a friend of mine! (You can read an interview with her on my website at Only registered users can see links on this forum! Register or Login on forum! |
The title of the concert was "Japanese Garden" yet only two pieces were by a Japanese composer. Was this good programming? I'd certainly say it was a little odd. Ritmica was the second to the last piece and received an astounding standing ovation from the audience. Out of the 4 works performed that night, Ritmica, by far, received the most approval from the audience. The Hindemith piece cam after and, as good as it was, seemed like an anti-climax after Ritmica.
I think Ifukube could work in a variety of programs. A program consisting of only Japanese composers would work very well. Such a program, no doubt, would also feature music by that "other" Japanese composer, Takemitsu. You could then here the really tangible artistic difference between the two.
Also, I think Ifukube could work on a menu of Russian composers. His musical language has kinship to the likes of Mussorgsky, Rimsky, Prokofiev, Shostakovich and Khachaturian. Let's not forget that Ifukube is from Hokkaido which is just a hop, skip and a jump from the Russian mainland.
What about placing him on a program with Sibelius. Would that work? I'd say yes! Here we have two "nature worshippers" of a northern leaning. (Sibelius = northern Europe, Ifukube = northern Asia.) Believe it or not, I think Sibbe's 5th and Ifukube's Tapkaara could compliment each other well. (Maybe this is because I "see" the color yellow in both works.) Both composers wrote OUTSTANDING violin concertos...these would be great to hear back-to-back. _________________ "Music is not philosophy."
-- Akira Ifukube
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Kurkikohtaus Site Admin


Joined: 01 Jun 2006 Posts: 1054 Location: Praha, CZ
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Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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Just worked through Ritmica Ostinata...
I like the general idiom, it is like proto-Adams without the cheeze filling. The energy of the piece and the switching between the 5-beat and 7-beat bars is exciting and to my ears never gets formulaic.
All of this said, I think the piece would work better in concert were it 10-12 minutes long instead of 15-20 (depending on the speed, Tapkaara reminds us that Saranceva's tempo is slow). In my mind, there is not enough content to warrant the piece being that long and that repetitive. But this said, I could imagine that it would go very well with a film like Koyanisqaatsi or Powaqaatsi, for those of you who have seen those... _________________
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Tapkaara Guest Conductor


Joined: 04 Jan 2007 Posts: 904 Location: San Diego, CA
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Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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Kurki,
I appreciate your fair opinion of RITMICA.
Ifukube is rarely labelled as a minimalist, though he certainly uses minimalist techniques. He certainly puts the OSTINTO to use in RITMICA OSTINATA.
As for the length of the piece, I disagree that it's too long, but if you don;t like too much repetition, I can understand your opinion. The unfortunate thing about Saranceva's performance (and the conductor's, for that matter) is that the tempi are just too slow throughout. The piece is much more exciting, and perhaps less "long" when it is not taken cautiously and the orchestra and soloist can let 'er rip.
My friend, the Japanese pianist Reiko Yamada, will be releasing a CD later this years which includes a live performance of RITMICA from 2006 in Japan. The Tochigi Orchestra is a "provencial" outfit, to say the least, but the energy of this performance makes Yablonsky's/Saranceva's recording sound more like a lulliby.
One thing to note also, is that the slow parts of the piece are very static and seem to hover without going anywhere. This is an imitation of old Japanese court music which had a tendancy to float in a fog.
Takemitsu's music seems to borrow heavily from this aesthetic. In fact, it is my opinion that Takemitu's works could work beter if THEY were shorter! It tends to be a lot of sound that doesn;t go anywhere and listening to a lot of that is not all that engrossing.
I like Mahler, but his works could have been MUCH better had he shortened them. Mahler's 2nd is a fabulous work, but he could have shaved at least a 3rd of its total length off and it would would be a more concise, attractive piece. _________________ "Music is not philosophy."
-- Akira Ifukube
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