The Sibelius Forum The Sibelius Forum
A discussion forum about the life and works of Jean Sibelius
 
FAQ :: Search :: Memberlist :: Usergroups :: Register
Profile :: Log in to check your private messages :: Log in

Valse Chevaleresque

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Sibelius Forum Forum Index -> Other Works
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Ads






Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:34 pm    Post subject: Ads

Back to top
kullervopete
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 1909
Location: Bury Lancs UK

PostPosted: Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:18 am    Post subject: Valse Chevaleresque Reply with quote

I have just played the Valse Chevaleresque opus 96c [orchestra] glorious stuff and how refreshing that Sibelius could let his hair down [pardon the pun] and write a 'Viennese' Waltz' with the best of them! Apparently Aino loathed the piece and thought it the product of someone whose senses were sodden with champagne. Be this as it may, its surely proof that Sibelius could move away from the northlands dusky forests too the ballroom.
The Valse Chevaleresque would not be out of place in a Vienna Philharmonic Newyears day concert--what do you think?--kullervopete.

_________________
Peter Frankland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kullervopete
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 1909
Location: Bury Lancs UK

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sadly it seems that as yet we have no interest at all on this forum in Sibelius's 'Valse Chevaleresque'--Aino Sibelius would probably have been delighted. But is it really that bad?.--kullervopete.

_________________
Peter Frankland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Andrew B
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 1129
Location: Brighton, England

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the chances of our Viennese chums adding Sibb to the New Year's Day schedules are somewhat more remote than the chances of George W Bush and Osama bin Laden having a convivial knees-up at a cheap bar on the moon (though we might all be better off if these two gents took a trip there, without a return ticket).

But I applaud the basic thrust of your argument - I've never seen this piece in a concert programme. Why not go further and use all of the Op. 96 set - including the gorgeous Autrefois? Maybe that would be a good idea for an adventurous orchestra and conductor somewhere in central Europe, not a million miles from Vienna (hint, hint...)

_________________

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
kullervopete
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 1909
Location: Bury Lancs UK

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent idea Andrew. I have made my own thoughts on 'Autrefois' very clear elsewhere on the forum. Just as the Vienna Phil dont include the 'Valse Chevaleresque' in concert so the Three Tenors have never included a Sibelius song in their concerts. It would have been wonderful to hear something like 'Sav, sav, susa [Sigh, Sigh Sedges] from Six Songs opus 36. Language problems or apathy? Still I do seem to recall Carreras singing a Grieg song.--kullervopete.
Pavarotti will be missed.

_________________
Peter Frankland


Last edited by kullervopete on Fri Mar 07, 2008 9:57 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kurkikohtaus
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 1164
Location: Praha, CZ

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew B wrote:
(hint, hint...)

Code:
Kurki pencils in a few changes to traditional New Year's programme...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Dorian
Subscriber
Subscriber


Joined: 04 Aug 2010
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:09 am    Post subject: Valse Chevaleresque Reply with quote

The Valse Chevaleresque, I have not listened to this dance music anybody please recommend a recording.
Since this is classed as a 'Viennese' Waltz' I would like to try and dance the 'Viennese' Waltz' to this piece. The 'Viennese' Waltz' is one step per second so it is quiet fast but wow dance to Sibelius.
Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kurkikohtaus
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 1164
Location: Praha, CZ

PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:12 am    Post subject: Re: Valse Chevaleresque Reply with quote

Dorian wrote:
The 'Viennese' Waltz' is one step per second so it is quiet fast but wow dance to Sibelius.

I think you mean one bar per second, so 3 steps per second?

I've never actually danced a waltz but we play a lot of the Strauss / Lehar waltzes on the promenade ...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Dorian
Subscriber
Subscriber


Joined: 04 Aug 2010
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 5:30 am    Post subject: 'Viennese' Waltz' Reply with quote

Yes, thank you for the correction, it is very fast always a good fun dance.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kullervopete
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 1909
Location: Bury Lancs UK

PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Dorian, I have Sibelius's 'Valse chevaleresque' opus 96c on Bis CD 384 with Neemi Jarvi and Gothenburg S.O. The highlights of the disc for me are 'The Bard' and the absolutely delightful 'Autrefois' with two soprano's. 'Valse Chevaleresque' is not Sibelius at his best, but will make a rousing dance. Actually Aino Sibelius detested the piece, she was reminded of her husbands 'boozy sessions'.-- Embarassed --kp

_________________
Peter Frankland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dorian
Subscriber
Subscriber


Joined: 04 Aug 2010
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:51 am    Post subject: Valse Chevaleresque Reply with quote

Thanks to Kullervopete for his comments.
I feel a little disappointed I hoped it was going to be a nice exciting piece to dance too.
Guess have just got to stay with Shostakovich Waltz suite number 2.
I often wonder if there are many people enjoy dancing to classical music ? Confused
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dorian
Subscriber
Subscriber


Joined: 04 Aug 2010
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2010 10:08 am    Post subject: Dance Intermezzo Op 45 Reply with quote

This dance peice, very interesting but not sure what the dance could be? Rolling Eyes Any ideas????
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kullervopete
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 1909
Location: Bury Lancs UK

PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just played 'Valse chevaleresque' this time with Osmo Vanska and Lahti S.O. Its not unattractive, but few uninitiated would guess that it was by Sibelius. [Bis CD 1485] 'Seriously Sibelius' is the title on the cover! I can see Dorian and his partner gliding round the ballroom to this Waltz. Sibelius wrote these type of pieces hoping to make some money. Unfortunately most publishers rejected pieces such as 'Valse lyrique' and 'Valse chevaleresque'. Sibelius hoped to write a successor to his celebrated 'Valse triste' but it was not to be. The Valse triste might make a nice dance. It starts very slow and dreamy and then works up to quite a frenzy.--kp

_________________
Peter Frankland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kullervopete
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 1909
Location: Bury Lancs UK

PostPosted: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote


Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!



Just come across this video of 'Valse Chevaleresque'. Sibelius had told Aino that it would be a gold mine. Could you guess that the music was written by JS if you did not know?-- Smile kp

_________________
Peter Frankland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tapkaara
Guest Conductor
Guest Conductor


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 951
Location: San Diego, CA

PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's really bizarre to hear a piece like this and know it was by Sibelius. It's the complete polar opposite of a work like Tapiola, isn't it? It's actually not a bad waltz...catchy even. I love that big cliche chord at the end.

_________________
"Music is not philosophy."
-- Akira Ifukube

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
kullervopete
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 1909
Location: Bury Lancs UK

PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tapkaara wrote:
It's really bizarre to hear a piece like this and know it was by Sibelius. It's the complete polar opposite of a work like Tapiola, isn't it? It's actually not a bad waltz...catchy even. I love that big cliche chord at the end.


One thing puzzles me about much of Sibelius's lighter music and especially the opus 96, 98 and 100 pieces. Just why have they been denigrated has unworthy of the composer. Here is English composer Ralph Wood in 1947: 'absolute hackwork', 'worthless...cheap and irritating...quite meritless and, indeed offensive'. Evil or Very Mad Clearly these lightweight pieces are not to be compared with the tone poems and songs--let alone the symphonies, but why is it that composers such as Shostakovitch can compose light music as for example the two Jazz Suites. 'Lively and endearing forays into the popular music of his time' is typical of the comments that I have seen. It seems that despite JS's enthusiasm for the music of Johann Strauss, pieces such as Valse chevaleresque [as far as the critics are concerned] were written to make some money! Well whats wrong with that! Composers still have to put bread on the table. Of course at one level Sibelius was the most self-critical of composers, at least has far as the major compositions were concerned. With regard to the more 'minor' pieces he was clearly not as strict. The composer Robert Simpson once said this of Sibelius and the fourth symphony 'A man who could write this work could do anything'. And that certainly includes a darn good waltz.--kp

_________________
Peter Frankland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tapkaara
Guest Conductor
Guest Conductor


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 951
Location: San Diego, CA

PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All of that is very well said, Pete. And then of course you have composers like the Strausses, espcially Johann, whose whole career and reputation is made on light music, but no one could argue that J. Strauss is considered a popular, and perhaps by some, a GREAT composer.

Yes, if Sibbe could write the 4th, he could write anything. Good quote! I guess it's just another facet of Sibelius-bashing; that is is, look for any little thing you can to bring him down, and do it. OK, so he wrote a goofy waltz. If anything, it shows his facility in just about any genre.

_________________
"Music is not philosophy."
-- Akira Ifukube

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
EsaTero
Concertmaster
Concertmaster


Joined: 21 Aug 2012
Posts: 465
Location: USA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the Vänskä disc and actually bought it for In Memoriam.

The three pieces are all a bit cheesy. Light, popular. But my musical ear is such that I can catch onto melody very well. I have the symphonies pretty well carved into my memory, so I could ID blindfolded a segment from each one if it was a few minutes long.

Then first of the opus 96 makes no mark at all on mymusical memory. Autrefois is very enjoyable, I do not bother assigning it as Sibelian or non-Sibelian. It is fine, acceptable. My assignment is quite strict: forgettable, acceptable.

The Chevaleresque piece is forgettable. And I could not distinguish it from a Strauss waltz, waltz memories do not stick to my brain.

But on the disc, the cheeziest walt of the set is very effective, coming right before In Memoriam. From a light waltz, straight to Tuonela.

Opus 100: forgettable

By contrast, sad walzes work fine for me, even Impromptu (the Opus 5 number 5 arranged for strings). And Andante festivo is a masterpiece compared to all these.

_________________
Humor blog:

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Sibelius Forum Forum Index -> Other Works All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Top posters
1. kullervopete
2. Andrew B
3. Tapkaara


Click HERE to make suggestions on what to do with this box!



smartDark Style by Smartor
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
 

Abuse - Report Abuse - TOS & Privacy.
Powered by forumup.com free forum, create your free forum! Created by Hyarbor & Qooqoa

Page generation time: 0.119