It seems to have gone quiet on the forum - let's try to clear the obstruction...

To get to the point: are we getting too much of the Violin Concerto these days? I know it's popular and violinists like playing it, but it seems to be everywhere, at the expense of so many other good works. And the flood of recordings continues with countless 1950s radio-sourced issues played by, er, who was that again with the Bogstandard Radio Orchestra conducted by somebody or other (can anybody make any money with such releases? - copyright still has to be paid!).

Wouldn't it be better to encourage those performers who truly understand and appreciate the work, and discourage the bandwagon-jumpers-onners?

Interesting...

Although I will agree that overplaying a piece will damage its reputation and perhaps even the reputation of a composer. But as to Sibelius' concerto specifically, I cannot offer an answer or even a real opinion. So I will elaborate on Andrew B's idea with even more questions, in hopes that I confuse the issue beyond comprehension.

The first thing that came to my mind when I read the first post is the potential parallel to other violin concertos, namely the "big" ones (Tchaikovsky, Mendelssohn, Brahms, Beethoven). Are those ones overplayed? I think certainly Tchaikovsky and Mendelssohn are performed much more often than the Sibelius. Does the frequent performance of those two damage the reception-over-time of the pieces or of the composers? In that situation, I would say rather the contrary, as they have been audience favourites from the time of their premieres and have stood the test of (many many) repeated hearings.

The question then may be, as Andrew B somewhat suggests, not how often they are played, but how they are played to begin with. While Tchaik and Mendelssohn (and by extension Brahms and Beethoven) are firmly rooted in the Classico-Romantic tradition in terms of technique and expression, Sibelius' concerto is, well, "somewhere else". When approached as one would approach Brahms, as perhaps Oistrach does, the results are horrendous.

To summarize, whereas more or less any 3rd tier soloist (or University student, for that matter) can delever a credible performance of Mendelssohn, it takes a little more study and sensitivity to Sibelius' idiom to deliver a worthy performance of his concerto. So, when too many of these empty or "unlearned" performances of Sibelius' concerto take place, yes, it can damage the reputation of the work and by extension, that of the composer as well.

Whew.

In terms of the raw number of performances, I think that is an issue related to the audience base of a given orchestra and the programming strategies of those in charge there. In my orchestra, with 2 exceptions, I have not replayed Symphonies or Concertos in any of the 4 subscription seasons that I have been programming there, and will not repeat anything in the 5th season either. The exceptions are Má vlast, which we play at the end of October every year (by tradition), and the New World Symphony (by audience demand), which we played 2 seasons ago and are doing again this year. When I engage soloists, I immediately tell them what piece I "need" them to play, not the other way around. I have never had a problem with a single soloist who did not "want" to play the work that I suggested.

We performed the Sibelius Concerto in April 2007 with our concert master Fumihito Terada, who was playing it for the first time (and got some really, really GOOD lessons from a certain little/big bird...)

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(from the rehearsal hall)

As much as I love the piece, I wouldn't dream of programming it again in a subscription series for another 4 years, because from the point of view of the audience, there are so many other concertos that we have yet to play...

Perhaps other Music Directors and concert programmers may think differently, perhaps their orchestra has developed a tradition with the piece as mine has with Má vlast...

Andrew B, what was your question?

My question - er, I can't remember!

Nice pic - and out of interest: what seating plan do you use? Every Finnish orchestra I've seen has gone for the conventional modern one of V1, V2, Vla, Vc, Cb (left to right) like most in the UK. But in your part of the world things may be more 'interesting'.

Osmo V, for instance, uses the conventional arrangement in Sibelius, but he divides the violins (i.e. V2 on right) in Beethoven (the way things used to be...). From the very few available photos it seems sure that Sibelius also divided the violins, and had the Cb at the back. While I don't think this makes such a big difference to the sound as in Beethoven - or Elgar - I would be keen to hear more Sibelius with the players in their 'original' positions.
(Sorry I didn't put that very elegantly, but I think the meaning comes across!)

Our seating plan, like all orchestras in the CzRep is the "modern" one {Vl1 Vl2 Va Vc Cb} left to right.

For a single performance, I swapped the 2nd violins and cellos, that was Bruckner's 4th Symphony.

why not alternate seating of all instruments? position them in arcs facing the conductor/audience -

v1, v2, v1, v2...

trpt, hn, trpt, hn...

keep the percussion together, though.

might have some page turn problems (can be worked out), but you'll have a great sound!

dj

Hi, just back from Corfu and those Greek jingles were starting to wear a bit thin, but the Sibelius concerto is another matter!
This work is certainly one of the most oft recorded in the repertoire and keeps an high profile in the concert hall, even Haitink programmed it in Boston this summer.
But thankfully gone are the days when a great artist such as David Oistrakh could be lambasted in the press for squandering his talents on the Sibelius concerto. For me, this work never sounds hackneyed and some people will always be hearing it for the first time.
Of course we can all do without the routine and at times lifeless parodies banded about both on record and in concert, but I would claim that Sibs great concerto still has hitherto unknown beauty and depth to reveal, and I for one am still searching for that perfect performance.--kullervopete.

kullervopete wrote:

I for one am still searching for that perfect performance.--kullervopete.

Very true; so am I, for this and every other work as well... it probably doesn't exist. And if a conductor claimed that he had given one, I would be very suspicious - what do you say, Kurki?

I don't think any self-respecting conductor could ever claim to have given the perfect performance of a concerto. No matter how tight the performance may have been, there will always be those few places where the orchestra and the soloist were not quite perfectly together...

I take accompanying extremely seriously, as it is often thereby that conductors are judged (by the orchestra). I feel an enormous sense of burden and responsibility when accompanying any soloist in any piece, as I try to find the right avenue to matching the soloists interpretation. It becomes a very exciting process when a soloist is sensitive enough to listen to the orchestra and find a tempo/expression/mood that is created mutually, and not dictated by one party or another.

kullervopete, I like your comment that...

Quote:

... some people will always be hearing it for the first time.

This is something that I sometimes forget when programming, that not just some, but many people are hearing not just the Sibelius concerto, but the whole program for the first time... food for thought.

With regard to the preparation of a concerto, if soloist and conductor do find themselves far apart in their respective vision of a particular piece, how much room is their for compromise. For example I have heard performances of the Sibelius in which the soloist treats it as a vehicle for sheer bravura display and virtuosity at the expense of poetic nuance and Sibelian atmosphere.
Can a conductor find a middle course without sacrificing his artistic integrity?--kullervopete.

I really feel a conductor's job is to take the soloist's interpretation and do the best he can to match it. But as I said above, the best performances are those where the soloist is able to be sensitive and flexible to the conductor's and orchestra's needs. This ideal state is not something that is necessarily discussed between the conductor and soloist, it is something that can evolve naturally, even during the course of a single rehearsal.

So as I understand it, although the conductor might suggest a change of tempi here or question some detail of balance there, on the whole the soloist is in the driving seat and the conductors task is to try and intergrate orchestra and soloist in such a way as to achieve an homogeneous vision of the work and if the soloist really listens to the orchestra then one can sometimes feel that special gel between all concerned and on rare occasions a special performance can be achieved.
I hope that this makes sense as I find the subject facinating.--kullervopete.

It makes perfect sense, bang on.

The question is, how does one do that?

Thats a very good question Kurki, well I am pondering about that heres a question from me, can conducting be taught?.--kullervopete.

I wish it could be taught... like (I imagine) most of us, I have the 'perfect' (well, my perfect) interpretations in my head - but even if I could afford to hire a decent orchestra and hall, I'm all too aware that communicating my wishes in a way that would produce a musically convincing result would be pretty well impossible. I'm sure the physical technique could be assimilated, but I am happy to leave the actual baton-wielding to the pros.

yes, the techniques of conducting can be taught.

useful conductorial communicative skills can be learned, i think more by watching than by being taught.

dj

I am reminded of the late great Sir Malcolm Arnold, having fallen under the spell of Jazz great Louis 'Sachmo' Armstrong, the young Arnold studied trumpet at the Royal College of music and became so proficient that he became principle trumpet in the London Phil. But in later life when he was a famous composer he remarked 'I went to the R. C. M. to learn the trumpet, but they didn't teach me how to play like Louis Armstrong!
I would think that the same principle might be true of budding conductors. You can be taught the basic rudiments of conducting, but to become a Koussevitzky or a Beecham then the magic must come from within.--kullervopete.

exactly!