The Sibelius Forum The Sibelius Forum
A discussion forum about the life and works of Jean Sibelius
 
FAQ :: Search :: Memberlist :: Usergroups :: Register
Profile :: Log in to check your private messages :: Log in

Sibelius as conductor
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Sibelius Forum Forum Index -> Biographical Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Ads






Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:44 am    Post subject: Ads

Back to top
david johnson
Orchestra Member - Principal
Orchestra Member - Principal


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 286
Location: arkansas/missouri

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:06 am    Post subject: Sibelius as conductor Reply with quote

did sibelius conduct?
anything of those performances recorded?

dj
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kurkikohtaus
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 1164
Location: Praha, CZ

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a recording of Andante Festivo with Sibelius conducting (1939), the sound is very poor and it's not exactly the definitive piece that you'd want to listen to... I just checked at the
Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

website, which states that this is the only recording available.

Otherwise, Sibelius conducted many of his own works, including the premiere of the 7th Symphony in Stockholm. Unfortunately, he was slightly inebriated during the performance and actually stopped to rehearse. After this event, Aino never again attended a performance where Sibelius was conducting. Click

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

for the full story.

Here is a nice picture of Sibelius conducting in a top hat...

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!


If you look carefully you will find me in the background on the right side... I'm the one in the Jedi Cloak.

_________________
The Sibelius Forum - since 2006
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Andrew B
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 1129
Location: Brighton, England

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Warning: for some years a recording issued as 'Sibelius conducts Andante festivo', duration approx 7 minutes, was in circulation on LPs and CD. In the mid-1990s it transpired that this was actually a tape of a rehearsal conducted by somebody else, possibly Toivo Haapanen. Apparently the cause was confusion at the Finnish Radio archives. The REAL one conducted by Sibelius was then issued, first of all on a magazine cover disc in Finland. This version is rhythmically much freer and plays for approx 6 minutes.

So make sure you have the right one!

Sorry to be pedantic, but the occasion on which Sibb was drunk was in April 1923 in Gothenburg (prog: Rakastava, The Oceanides and the Second Symphony) - it was in consequence of that occasion that Aino refused to acconmpany him to Stockholm in 1924 for Fantasia sinfonica/Sym 7.

_________________

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Kurkikohtaus
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 1164
Location: Praha, CZ

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 1:48 pm    Post subject: Corrections... Reply with quote

I do indeed have the 6 minute version on an Ondine CD called "Sibelius Favourites".

As for the Gotteburg story, you are not being pedantic, Andrew B, that's what you are here for, to give us the best and most accurate facts possible, so thanks for that. I got my information from the
Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

website... any idea how widespread the misinformation is?
__________________________________________________
Just wondering, dj, any particular reason that you began this thread in the "Programming" category? I am tempted to move it to one of the "Sibelius - The Man" categories. Let me know what you think.

_________________
The Sibelius Forum - since 2006
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
david johnson
Orchestra Member - Principal
Orchestra Member - Principal


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 286
Location: arkansas/missouri

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no reason other than it seemed right at the time. if it's better somewhere else, have at it.

dj
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
World Violist
Soloist
Soloist


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 538

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I kind of wonder which pieces of his Sibelius conducted the premiere of; I know he did a lot of them!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Andrew B
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 1129
Location: Brighton, England

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes indeed - almost all of the major works except Night Ride and Sunrise (Siloti) and Tapiola (Damrosch). One day I ought to make a systematic list with dates and venues... until then, if in doubt, it's a fair bet that Sibb himself conducted the premières - more often than not at the University Hall in Helsinki.

_________________

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Kurkikohtaus
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 1164
Location: Praha, CZ

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may be confusing half-a-dozen unrelated events here, but was one of the symphonies premiered in Sweden?

-EDIT-

I think I may have found it,
Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

page states that the 7th was premiered on March 24, 1924 in Stockholm with Sibelius conducting.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Andrew B
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 1129
Location: Brighton, England

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, that's right. Regarding Stockholm, as I am quite often in Sweden, I've been trying to locate the building in which the première was given - I suspect it isn't there any more. The airport bus goes through the square where it is/was just before arriving at the City Terminal. Maybe I'll buy a book of old photos but I am a sucker for such things and could easily spend a week just looking at the pictures.

_________________

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Kurkikohtaus
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 1164
Location: Praha, CZ

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Time well spent, in my opinion... as long as there's a good recording of the 7th in the foreground and your favourite beverage close at hand.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
kullervopete
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 1909
Location: Bury Lancs UK

PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sibelius conducted the premiere of his Sixth Symphony in Helsinki on 19th Feb. 1923. The programme was quite unusual. The first half being devoted to such new, light little pieces as the 'Suite caracteristique' opus 100 for strings and harp, the jazzy flavour of which was reputed by Evert Katila the critic, to have been underlined by Sibelius with relaxed and jaunty wiggling of the hips.---kullervopete.

_________________
Peter Frankland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Andrew B
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 1129
Location: Brighton, England

PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wish I could have seen that. Smile

Those little suites (mignonne, champêtre and caractéristique) are much harder to play than they sound - you must have the virtuosity of a top ensemble and the sensitivity of touch needed by Mozart. I've yet to hear a performance that I truly think ticks all the boxes... mind you, when they are done well, they sound great.

_________________

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
kullervopete
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 1909
Location: Bury Lancs UK

PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Andrew B remarked earlier, Sibelius himself premiered most of his major works with the exception of Nightride and sunrise and Tapiola.
I have been doing a little research on Luonnotar which was written for Soprano Aino Ackte who was soloist in the premiere at the Gloucester music festival in England on 10th September, 1913. The conductor of the Festival Orchestra was Herbert Brewer [1865-1928] As a composer, Brewer was fairly conservative and very much involved with church music.
I wonder just how well Brewer understood Luonnotar at this time. It was and indeed still is one of Sibelius's most modern and radical works and I am surprised that Sibelius entrusted the premiere to a relatively little known musician.
It seems however that the premiere was fairly successful, but it was to be another 57 years before this great work was recorded.--kullervopete.

_________________
Peter Frankland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Andrew B
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 1129
Location: Brighton, England

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, one suspects that he (Brewer) was probably not too familiar with the idiom... but then, as we have been discussing in another thread, non-Sibelians can turn in good results in the right circumstances. As I'm sure you know, there were also mutterings about the suitability of Walter Damrosch as a conductor for Tapiola.

_________________

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
kullervopete
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 1909
Location: Bury Lancs UK

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well yes, but Damrosch was a much more established figure on the orchestral scene than Brewer. He had given the first performance of Tchaikovsky's 4th Symphony in America and a number of modern works including Gershwins Piano Concerto in F with the composer as soloist. Unlike Brewer and Luonnotar, Damrosch had comissioned Tapiola and Sibelius must have been fully aware of his orchestral credentials. We are agreed that none Sibelians can turn out a fine performance, but Luonnotar is perhaps Sibelius's most challenging masterpiece both for the soloist and the orchestra and I still think that Sibelius took a surprising gamble when he entrusted the premiere to a little known English organist.--kullervopete.

_________________
Peter Frankland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Andrew B
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 1129
Location: Brighton, England

PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're right. I wonder how much choice Sibelius had in the matter, however. I daresay he would have been welcome to conduct Luonnotar himself, if he had been willing to go there, but in the circumstances he probably had to accept whoever was offered (and he would have had no reason to suspect that Brewer was in any way incompetent).

I totally concur that Luonnotar is a masterpiece. We shall never know whether Sibelius realized this before the première - just think of Finlandia or Valse triste

_________________

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
kullervopete
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 1909
Location: Bury Lancs UK

PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With regard to Damrosch, I should have mentioned also that he gave the first American performance of Sibbs Fourth.
Sibelius was in England in 1912 [his fourth visit] to conduct his Fourth Symphony and I think that it may have been Bantock who tried to temp Sibelius for a choral work for the 1913 Three Choirs Festival at Gloucester. In the autumn of 1912 Sibelius decided against going to the Gloucester Festival as he was having second thoughts in composing the choral work that they had asked for.
However Sibelius had promised Aino Ackte an orchestral song and she told the composer that she would be giving the new work in England at Gloucester in a concert that would also include the final scene from Richard Strauss's 'Salome'.
By August Sibelius had completed Luonnotar which he described as a 'tone poem for soprano and orchestra'.
Before she left for England, Ackte went through the score with Sibelius 'it as swept me off my feet' Ackte remarked 'but at the same time, I am so very frightened that I will not be equal to its demands, for it is madly difficult and my otherwise sure sense of pitch may fail me'.
On 10th Sept. Sibb noted 'today Luonnotar is to be performed in Gloucester!?! afterwards I shall work over it again, it is much in my mind at present'. One wonders just how much rehearsal time Brewer devotd to the work. At the end of October Sibb sent off a revised version to Breitkopf, but the work was only published in a piano reduction. The orchestral score was not published until 1981.

After the Finnish premiere Aino Sibelius was in rapture 'it was like a strange eagle from the primeval spheres of all existence. I was so ecstatic I could hardly stand'. Elisabeth Schwarzkopf sang Luonnotar in Helsinki in 1955 and was moved to remark that it was the 'best thing she had ever done in her life'. I wonder if a tape exists of her performance-that would be something.--kullervopete.

_________________
Peter Frankland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Andrew B
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 1129
Location: Brighton, England

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding the Schwarzkopf performance, sadly I don't know if a tape exists but Jussi Jalas [the conductor and Sibelius's son-in-law] told me that at one point she sang the word 'olut' [beer] instead of 'ollut' [been], much to his amusement, and that of the orchestral players. Smile

_________________

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
kullervopete
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 1909
Location: Bury Lancs UK

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that is a cracker! mind you, Finnish is a very difficult language and for the worlds top soprano to even attempt it says a lot. I think that Schwarzkopf's husband Walter Legge may have had a hand in it.--kullervopete.

_________________
Peter Frankland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kurkikohtaus
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 1164
Location: Praha, CZ

PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew B wrote:
'olut' [beer] instead of 'ollut' [been]


Could you describe what the difference in pronouciation would be?

Unfortunately, a similar mistake could never happen in Czech, because the Czech word for beer (Pivo) is quite unique in the language, no other words sound like it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Sibelius Forum Forum Index -> Biographical Discussion All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Top posters
1. kullervopete
2. Andrew B
3. Tapkaara


Click HERE to make suggestions on what to do with this box!



smartDark Style by Smartor
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
 

Abuse - Report Abuse - TOS & Privacy.
Powered by forumup.com free forum, create your free forum! Created by Hyarbor & Qooqoa

Page generation time: 0.144