The Sibelius Forum The Sibelius Forum
A discussion forum about the life and works of Jean Sibelius
 
FAQ :: Search :: Memberlist :: Usergroups :: Register
Profile :: Log in to check your private messages :: Log in

The Concerto's place among Concertos
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Sibelius Forum Forum Index -> The Violin Concerto
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Ads






Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:58 pm    Post subject: Ads

Back to top
arenan
Orchestra Member - Section Leader
Orchestra Member - Section Leader


Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

some guy wrote:
Which piece are you referring to by "Narrate"?

(


Proko's 2nd Piano Concerto. I find all that "rubbish" Very very touching... After some silly years it is all here!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kullervopete
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 1911
Location: Bury Lancs UK

PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I aggree arenan, the Berg concerto [1935] is a cracker, inspired as it was by the death of the eighteen year old daughter of Alma Mahler. Alban was certainly the most approachable member of the second Viennese school. Any thoughts on the Elgar.--kullervopete.

_________________
Peter Frankland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
arenan
Orchestra Member - Section Leader
Orchestra Member - Section Leader


Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kullervopete:

Well after some years in and on playing with finest violinists there are and trying to study the whole score on Berg I do not find slightest of interest to NOT become familiar with this Elgar piece.. And I quess you are refering to his enigmatic violin concerto? Two pieces of puzzle there, Berg and Elgar.. Think about Mahler's violin concerto.. Coz I can tell you that Sibba was preparing his 2nd concerto! As you know...
Well I am trying to get my hands on something wonderful recorded.. Do you have any canditates Elgar-wise?!

-A
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kullervopete
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 1911
Location: Bury Lancs UK

PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

arenan, as far as the Elgar violin concerto goes there have been numerous fine accounts over the years including a celebrated historical recording with the young Yehudi Menuhin and Elgar himself conducting. My own current favourite is Nigel Kennedy with the London P. O. under Vernen Handley. One bargain in my collection is on the budget Naxos label with Dong--Suk Kang and Adrian Leaper conducting, coupled with the Sibelius. Yet another version worth considering is Kyung-Wha Chung with the London P.0. under Solti. Get hold of the Elgar when you can, it will be a rewarding experience. By the way, talking about singing the praises of the Berg--Sibelius once made an interesting remark about Arnold Schenberg, and I quote 'Alban Berg is Schoenbergs best acievement'. --kullervopete.

_________________
Peter Frankland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
World Violist
Soloist
Soloist


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 538

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Sibelius is right after Beethoven and Brahms. Mendelssohn's is a great concerto as well, as is Tchaikovsky's, but Sibelius had some elements in abundance that other composers didn't have to quite the same degree. Just the way the piece develops and the way Sibelius puts the violin's technique at a very high level while still maintaining it's "ease" in that strange way that Beethoven and Brahms did so much better, but still...

I suppose, now I think of it a bit more, that Mendelssohn might tie with Sibelius; after all, they are decently similar. Mendelssohn did develop his themes somewhat like Sibelius did, although the whole piece is much more blatantly virtuosic than Sibelius' concerto. I'll have to think on this one.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kullervopete
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 1911
Location: Bury Lancs UK

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lets not forget that Sir Donald Tovey [1875-1940] of 'Thors Hammer' fame placed Sibelius's Concerto above that of the Mendelssohn and remember that when Sibelius revised his Concerto he cut out some fiendishly difficult virtuoso writing, including the first movements second, Bach like solo cadenza.--kullervopete.

_________________
Peter Frankland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tapkaara
Guest Conductor
Guest Conductor


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 951
Location: San Diego, CA

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goodness...it's been over a year since I've participated in this forum. I have been reading several of the posts that have been added since my absence and it has been most interesting. Hopefully there are others that still stay active as I would really like to start taking an active roll in this great forum again.

Anyway, about the Violin Concerto.

Someone else in this thread mentioned that the Concerto was something of an acquired taste. Same here. When I first became acquianted with maestro Sibelius's music about 12 or 13 years ago, I just could not get into it. Nowadays, I return to it often and am just astounded by its touching lyricism. I am indeed in love with this piece of music.

I recently picked up the recording of it on Naxos with Henning Kraggerud (soloist) and Bjarte Engeset conduction the Bournemouth SO. I had heard a lot of negative things about this recording, so naturally I was a little surprised that it is actually quite good. Exciting even. Has anyone else heard this?

_________________
"Music is not philosophy."
-- Akira Ifukube

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
World Violist
Soloist
Soloist


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
Posts: 538

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that I've actually gotten to listen to this concerto a bit more often, I think it's definitely more thrilling than Mendelssohn's (but that results from my only recording still being Heifetz's... must get Neveu's one of these days...). I think I initially thought that Mendelssohn's concerto was more virtuosic because I wasn't able to do octaves back then Wink . Sibelius' concerto just has far more than octaves, which is about what Mendelssohn's extends to.

Circus tricks aside, I still think that Sibelius' concerto just outdoes Mendelssohn's violin concerto; they are structurally similar, but Sibelius' melody and development just run circles around Mendelssohn, and the opening is just pure Sibelian, magical. I like Sibelius' middle movement a lot better, too, and the end of the whole concerto is very much like Mendelssohn's ending, if I recall rightly: repeated D major (E major) chords and then a sustained one? The last movement of both concerti were never my favorites.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kullervopete
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 1911
Location: Bury Lancs UK

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Kraggerud is my most recent Sibelius Cd and very good it is too.
Kraggerud gets that fine balance right between the virtuosic and poetic. Mind you he uses a 1744 Guarneri dell gesu 'Ole Bull' violin.
Also nice account of Sibs Serenade in G minor, opus 69b.
These Sibelius items are coupled with Sindings concerto and Romance in D major opus 100. I dont know the Sinding and I have not yet played it, but great Sibelius.--kullervopete.

_________________
Peter Frankland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tapkaara
Guest Conductor
Guest Conductor


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 951
Location: San Diego, CA

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Sinding pieces on the Naxos recording are enjoyable, but nowhere near the perfection of the Sibelius. They are worlds apart in every way.

I must admit I've not heard the Mendelsohn violin concerto, but that makes sense as I am not the biggest fan of Mendelssohn. I do like his 5th Symphony, however.

Does anyone else enjoy the Khachaturian concerto? It one of my favorite and it is often coupled on recordings of the Sibelius.

_________________
"Music is not philosophy."
-- Akira Ifukube

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
kullervopete
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 1911
Location: Bury Lancs UK

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You bet!
Another great piece. Undoubtedly Oistrakh is the one to search out [he is the dedicatee] with the composer conducting. The coupling is the Sibelius.--kullervopete.

_________________
Peter Frankland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kurkikohtaus
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 1164
Location: Praha, CZ

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tapkaara wrote:
I must admit I've not heard the Mendelsohn violin concerto, but that makes sense as I am not the biggest fan of Mendelssohn.

Shocked Shocked Shocked

What an interesting story that is! While certainly not my favourite violin concerto, I think it is definitely worth getting to know. It is a step in a new direction from Beethoven's concerto, and I think all the great and small concerti after Mendelssohn (Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Dvořák, even Sibelius) owe a bit of their inspiration to this work.

I recommend Zuckermann with Bernstein and the New York Philharmonic.

_________________
The Sibelius Forum - since 2006
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Tapkaara
Guest Conductor
Guest Conductor


Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 951
Location: San Diego, CA

PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will certainly have to search out the Mendelssohn Violin Concerto on your recommendation, Kurki. Perhaps it will help me convert to his music.

Another great violin concert (but more or less unknown) is the first one by my other favorite composer, Akira Ifukube. It's in 2 movements and contains some great lyrcism and catchy tunes. Not easily available outside of Japan, however. Sad

_________________
"Music is not philosophy."
-- Akira Ifukube

Only registered users can see links on this forum!
Register or Login on forum!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
kullervopete
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 1911
Location: Bury Lancs UK

PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With regard to Mendelssohn, heres what Sibelius had to say in 1916. 'Do you know whom I consider the two greatest geniuses of the orchestra? you will be surprised to hear it: Mozart and Mendelssohn'.
In his youth, Sibelius had made a detailed study of the Mendelssohn concerto with a view to playing it in public, but Santeri Levas believes that the essential reasons lay deeper, in that the musical language of Mendelssohn found an echo in the Finnish Masters heart.
As an example listen to the second movement of the 'Italian' symphony, for me this music shares a deep kinship with the coresponding movement of Sibelius third--ruminative and mysterious. Listen to the finale of the Mendelssohn 'Saltarello' rushing strings conjuring a picture of the wind gusting through the tree tops--so Sibelian. I could go on, Mendelssohn and Sibelius are close spirits.--kullervopete.

_________________
Peter Frankland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kullervopete
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 1911
Location: Bury Lancs UK

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have finally played the Sinding Violin Concerto discussed earlier coupled with the Sibelius [Henning Kraggerud]
Not a bad piece, but the very opening hit me in the face, the main theme is blatantly pinched from the Bruch Violin Concerto No.1. Finale.
Thank God that Sibelius did not plagiarize other peoples music like this!--kp Shocked

_________________
Peter Frankland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kullervopete
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 1911
Location: Bury Lancs UK

PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a recent post to 'Sibelius a life in pictures' I mentioned the premiere of the original version of the violin concerto and that amid much criticism Sibelius withdrew it for revision. We all know just what JS thought about critics and in the case of the concerto Karl Flodin was pretty scathing. I want to make the point that Sibelius himself was his own biggest critic and whatever broadsides others might have fired at him, if he had been happy with the work as it stood then it would not have been withdrawn. Mind you its a puzzle why he needed two years! in which to get it into its final shape. In the case of the fourth symphony which was recieved with incredulity by many, Sibelius did not withdraw the work for revision, though he did make some changes to the fair copy for publication. Another example of Sibelius's 'perfectionist' approach was of course the fifth symphony. At the premiere in 1915 it was triumphantly recieved, yet it was to be another four years before its creator was satisfied with it.--kp

_________________
Peter Frankland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Malik
Listener


Joined: 01 Mar 2012
Posts: 5
Location: New Orleans

PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uh, forgive my naďveté when it comes to music, I suppose, but as a young violinist I think that the Sibelius not only trumps any and all violin concerti, but personally it is the single most important work of my life. The love of my life. It's the piece that inspired me to take the risk of trying to become a violinist even though I started playing when I was 11. And in the past 3 years alone (between 9th and 11th grade) I've gone from the Seitz concertos to the Mendelssohn and I have this concerto alone to thank. In my honest opinion it's the most beautiful work of art ever made. Both endlessly melodic and powerful while at the same time occasionally eerie and almost raw. I would say the only piece coming close to rivalling its intense beauty would be Bartók's 1st violin concerto.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kullervopete
Conductor in Residence
Conductor in Residence


Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 1911
Location: Bury Lancs UK

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Malik, you have certainly taken JS's only Concerto to your heart. Oddly enough back in the 1950's and 60's this was the piece that was attacked most by critics. I remember one reviewer talking about David Oistrakh squandering his talents on the Sibelius Violin Concerto! Well thankfully times change. Are you familier with the Elgar, in my opinion a marvellous work. Very recently I heard the Korngold Concerto. This also blew me away. But the Sibelius is tops. Good luck with your fiddle playing--kp

_________________
Peter Frankland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Kurkikohtaus
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Posts: 1164
Location: Praha, CZ

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An interesting comparison you make, Malik, between Sibelius and Bartok 1st with regard to their shared "intense beauty". I would have never thought of that parallel, I will have to revisit Bartok's first ... I am currently studying his second concerto.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Malik
Listener


Joined: 01 Mar 2012
Posts: 5
Location: New Orleans

PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kullervopete wrote:
Hi Malik, you have certainly taken JS's only Concerto to your heart. Oddly enough back in the 1950's and 60's this was the piece that was attacked most by critics. I remember one reviewer talking about David Oistrakh squandering his talents on the Sibelius Violin Concerto! Well thankfully times change. Are you familier with the Elgar, in my opinion a marvellous work. Very recently I heard the Korngold Concerto. This also blew me away. But the Sibelius is tops. Good luck with your fiddle playing--kp
Ah, unfortunately I am not well acquainted with Elgar, but I'm very well acquainted with Korngold's Violin Concerto. I'm quite a fan of all of Korngold's work, especially his chamber pieces such as his piano quartet and 2nd string quartet. And that seems such a shame, I never knew! As it is the work as a whole is beyond my technique but I have the concerto up to the 2nd cadenza of the first movement memorized, though I think of all three movements the second is my favourite. It and Paganini's 1st violin concerti I'd venture to say are the only two violin concerti I love all the way through, though Paganini lacks the suffering and intensity of Sibelius
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    The Sibelius Forum Forum Index -> The Violin Concerto All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Top posters
1. kullervopete
2. Andrew B
3. Tapkaara


Click HERE to make suggestions on what to do with this box!



smartDark Style by Smartor
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
 

Abuse - Report Abuse - TOS & Privacy.
Powered by forumup.com free forum, create your free forum! Created by Hyarbor & Qooqoa

Page generation time: 0.113