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The Concerto's place among Concertos
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Kurkikohtaus
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 1:43 pm    Post subject: The Concerto's place among Concertos Reply with quote

Where do you believe that this concerto "ranks" or "belongs" among these (and other) violin concertos?
  • Mendelssohn
  • Tchaikovsky
  • Beethoven
  • Brahms

I certainly believe that these 4 + Sibelius are the greatest violin concertos ever, but I must say, having conducted all of them already, that I put Sibelius' above all others but below these 4, if such an ordering is even possible. This is of course personal opinion, I have no objective "evidence" to back this up, it is merely my feeling and preferance.

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Ainola
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 9:10 am    Post subject: concerto's place Reply with quote

I have to admit that the violin concerto wasn't my favorite at first but it did grow on me the more i listened to it. I'd have to say the others are definetely top four, but what is fifth? I think there is still a gap from those four to other concertos even Sibelius's.
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arenan
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beethoven is the best. Then comes Mendelsohn and Brahms. Sibelius grooves about there. So all hail Beethoven and the purity of a dominant note.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arenan, do you rank Sibelius above the Tchaikovsky concerto? Just curious. Question

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I do. No apparent reason.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is the most popular violin concerto in the whole of the 20th century. As far as form, it surpassed any which I'm aware of. I remember in a dream I had once, I was in the audience of Sibelius's 2nd Violin Concerto. The 'Infintely' beautiful theme itself sounded as if it was in a chorus of violins with flawless counterpoint. I wonder if dear Sibelius didn't compose this from the great beyond. Once I awoke, I could only vaguely remember the details that I mentioned above.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zauberberg wrote:
It is the most popular violin concerto in the whole of the 20th century.

That perhaps opens an interesting debate. Is this a "20th Century piece"?

Of course, it's composition in 1903 / 05 tell us that it is, but I place this concerto soundly in the Romantic repertoire. I think the comparison to Mendelssohn, Brahms and Tchaikovsky is more to the point than placing it next to the concertos of Bartok, Prokofiev and Shostakovich, who's 20th Century Character is undeniable.

Has anyone heard Nielsen's violin concerto? I do not know this piece. Is it ever played? How does it stack up to Sibelius, or Bartok, for that matter?

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nielsen is edgy and harsh, like all that is Danish. And it laughs on itself.. I like the piece a lot! Amazing but very different from Sibelius. But if we had to choose a pair then Sibelius and Nielsen would stand tall together. Both original, both easy to enter, both in parole.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

arenan wrote:
Both original, both easy to enter, both in parole.

arenan, can you explain what you mean by "both in parole"?

By the way, welcome back and congratulations on being the first member to reach 50 posts and a new rank!

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2007 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Both in parole" = Both are just enough obscure to not have the same accepted status like Tsaikovskis concerto. "IT IS JUST THAT GOOD!". And remember, the final version of Sibelius concerto is not the very first performed version!
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nielsen's violin concerto edgy and harsh? Whose performance are you listening to? I can't imagine anyone describing this piece as edgy and harsh. (So I'd be interested in the recording you've heard.)

Interesting that his violin concerto has come up in this thread, though, as I've long thought that the Sibelius and Nielsen violin concertos were their respective composers' weakest large pieces. I can think of no other musical similarity between these two.

As for Bartok, his violin concerto towers above all others, even Ligeti's.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 4:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

some guy wrote:
I've long thought that the Sibelius and Nielsen violin concertos were their respective composers' weakest large pieces.


Interesting, would you say the same about Dvorák's?

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andrew B, congrats on 100 posts!

I like Dvořák's violin concerto, it gets "average" play-time in the Czech Republic, I would say perhaps on par with Mendelssohn and probably more than Beethoven and Brahms, with Tchaikovsky begin the most performed in this country.

I think Dvořák's weakest large-scale work is his Piano Concerto, Op. 33, composed in 1876. It is the first of the 3 concertos that he wrote. It is not performed frequently, but my orchestra will be playing it in May 2008, on the request of a soloist I like to work with (named Jan Jiraský). I will pair it with Dvorak's 7th symphony, which should make for a very dire evening.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could always play Sibelius's Seventh instead? That would liven things up.
But even so, surely Dvořák's Seventh isn't as lumbering and over-hyped as those monstrosities with which it is all too often compared? Johannes somebody-or-other, guy with a beard who wanted to look like Leif Segerstam... At least Dvořák had a feeling for pulse and motion too... not just Andante con moto.


(P.S. pls add the háčeks if you can, I don't find them on the UK keyboard!)

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I too would say that Dvorak's weakest large scale work is the piano concerto, though it's a close race between that and the violin concerto. (The Dvorak piano concerto was the concerto on the first symphony concert I ever attended. I was disappointed, even way back then.)
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2007 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

some guy wrote:
Nielsen's violin concerto edgy and harsh?

Interesting that his violin concerto has come up in this thread, though, as I've long thought that the Sibelius and Nielsen violin concertos were their respective composers' weakest large pieces. I can think of no other musical similarity between these two.

As for Bartok, his violin concerto towers above all others, even Ligeti's.


Edgy and harsh comes to mind looking at the score. Like Nielsens 6th symphony, you consider that to be a floating music like ..well, Sibelius's 6th? I do not have any drive to keep them together but you have to understand that they are equal off their time... But Nielsens music is VERY edgy and harsh (cornered). Just look at the score!

I agree with Bartok, are you refering his 2nd? Ligeti.. Well I like even more todays perfectual like Lindberg. And speaking about towering I think Prokofievs "Narrate" is the best.. Could you think so?
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2007 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which piece are you referring to by "Narrate"?

(I'm inclined to just agree generally that Prokofiev does tower rather, but not in the violin concertos. They're pretty. And I like them...)

((I'm starting to feel guilty about talking about other composers on this forum, too. But we all esteem many many people highly. Probably wouldn't like Sibelius as much as we do were it not so.))
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2007 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moderator's Notes:
  1. No problem in talking about other composers in a thread titled "The Concerto's Place Among Concertos". That title asks for comparisons, so all discussion of the sort above is perfect.
  2. Andrew B, thanks for your sensitivity to the Czech "háčky and čárky" (hooks and lines), I have added them. Cool

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2007 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

May I enter a plea for the violin concerto in B Minor opus 61 by Sir Edward Elgar, completed in 1910 and dedicated to Fritz Kreisler who gave the first performance. The Sibelius and Elgar are very different animals, Sibelius's concerto is in the Mendelssohn tradition with its lighter more rhapsodic style and Elgar in the Brahmsian grand symphonic manner. But a great concerto and I think worthy of a place in any top ten.--kullervopete.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2007 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

May I enter a plea for the violin concerto. Just as it is may I also enter a plea for the "Berg-Concerto" .. It might be the best .. ?
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